[Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

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[Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Balin » Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:25 am

A group of men get lost while sailing. If they had been in the Atlantic Ocean, they would not have gotten lost. Why?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Hobbsicle » Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:39 am

Were they in the Pacific Ocean? Indian Ocean? Arctic? Antarctic? A sea? A lake? A river? Were they navigating by stars? Compass? Sun? Landmarks? GPS? Some other way? Sailing...in a small sailboat? In a ship with sails? Multiple boats? Relevant?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby WiZ » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:34 am

Is there some unique quality of the Atlantic Ocean that would have helped them not get lost? Does the reason they would have not got lost have to do with directions? Size? Composition of the water? Islands?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby GalFisk » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:44 am

Were they experienced sailors? Did they have experience from the Atlantic ocean? Sea life relevant? Instruments? Weather? Did they have experience that didn't translate well to wherever they were sailing? Were they sailing on an ocean? Lake? Through space?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Earnest » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:52 am

Is discovery of America relevant? Were they iii Pacific Ocean? Arctic Ocean? A minor sea? Or maybe in a river?

If they had been in the Atlantic Ocean, they would not have gotten lost. --> would they have reached their destination? Would they have had the same destination? Are stars relevant? Is orientation? Is geographic orientation of continent with respect to Atlantic Ocean relevant? Does it apply everywhere in the Atlantic Ocean (i.e. can the sentence be rephrased in "If they had been anywhere in the Atlantic Ocean, they would not have gotten lost."?)?Geology relevant?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:59 pm

Did they believe they were in the Atlantic ocean?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Balin » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:42 pm

Were they in the Pacific Ocean? Indian Ocean? Arctic? Antarctic? A sea? This A lake? A river?
Were they navigating by stars? Compass? This Sun? Landmarks? GPS? Some other way?
Sailing...in a small sailboat? In a ship with sails? Multiple boats? This Relevant? Yes

Is there some unique quality of the Atlantic Ocean that would have helped them not get lost? No
Does the reason they would have not got lost have to do with directions? This, No to rest Size? Composition of the water? Islands?

Were they experienced sailors? No Did they have experience from the Atlantic ocean? No
Sea life relevant? Instruments? This, No to rest Weather?
Did they have experience that didn't translate well to wherever they were sailing? No
Were they sailing on an ocean? Lake? Through space? A sea; see above

Is discovery of America relevant? Were they iii Pacific Ocean? Arctic Ocean? A minor sea? Or maybe in a river?

If they had been in the Atlantic Ocean, they would not have gotten lost. --> would they have reached their destination? See next Would they have had the same destination? No
Are stars relevant? No Is orientation? Not sure what you're asking Is geographic orientation of continent with respect to Atlantic Ocean relevant? No Does it apply everywhere in the Atlantic Ocean (i.e. can the sentence be rephrased in "If they had been anywhere in the Atlantic Ocean, they would not have gotten lost."?)? Yes Geology relevant? No

Did they believe they were in the Atlantic ocean? No
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:19 am

Magnetic declination relevant? Were they near a geographical pole? Magnetic pole? Was there a problem with the compass? With reading it? Interpreting it? Was it disturbed by other magnetic fields or conductors? Were they sailing with actual sails? Was this more than a hundred years ago? 200? 500? 1000?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Balin » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:18 pm

Magnetic declination relevant? No Were they near a geographical pole? No Magnetic pole? No Was there a problem with the compass? No With reading it? No Interpreting it? Yes Was it disturbed by other magnetic fields or conductors? No Were they sailing with actual sails? No Was this more than a hundred years ago? 200? 500? 1000? No to these
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Earnest » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:21 pm

Is their destination relevant? An island? The ground? A city? The first safe place?
Ulysses relevant? But maybe they were experienced sailors...
Is the sea on Earth? Is the sea on the moon?

Would they have died in the Atlantic? I mean, they fact that they would have known were they were does not mean that they were safe. They could have been in the middle of nowhere in the Atlantic Ocean still knowing where they found themselves.
Does North and South Atlantic make a difference? Would the puzzle work with "Indian Ocean" rather than "Atlantic Ocean"? or "Pacific Ocean"? If not, relevant that Atlantic is quite in the middle of Earth?
Relevant where they believed to be?

they would not have gotten lost --> does it mean that they would have known exactly where they were? If so, with respect to something relevant (the North? A city? An island?)? Is the sea part of the Atlantic Ocean relevantly? Tides and winds relevant?

Did they know in which sea they were sailing? Relevant where they set out? Or maybe they were pirates stealing other boats (e.g. they stole steamships)? Had they been in Atlantic Ocean, would they have know that they were sailing in the Atlantic Ocean? Or they would have believed to sail somewhere else? If so, relevant where they would have believed to sail?

Sea = Mediterranean Sea? Red Sea? Black Sea? Arctic sea? A sea on Earth?
Did they base on a map relevantly to find the way? If so, were minor seas signed on the map? Was there: a wind rose? geographic coordinates?

Don't know much about compasses to find the way in the sea/Ocean, but still, since Ocean is bigger than a sea, is the width of the opening of the compass relevant?...maybe it has something to do with min/max radius of the circle that can be made on a map by opening the compass (which fits in an Ocean but not in a sea)? Unless I am wrongly translating the word "compass"...

Magnetism relevant? Magnetic field? Disturbance to magnetic field?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Balin » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:32 pm

Is their destination relevant? No An island? The ground? A city? The first safe place?
Ulysses relevant? No But maybe they were experienced sailors... They were not
Is the sea on Earth? No! Is the sea on the moon? No

Would they have died in the Atlantic? Assume No I mean, they fact that they would have known were they were does not mean that they were safe. They could have been in the middle of nowhere in the Atlantic Ocean still knowing where they found themselves.
Does North and South Atlantic make a difference? No Would the puzzle work with "Indian Ocean" rather than "Atlantic Ocean"? Yes or "Pacific Ocean"? Yes If not, relevant that Atlantic is quite in the middle of Earth?
Relevant where they believed to be? Not specifically

they would not have gotten lost --> does it mean that they would have known exactly where they were? I'll say Yes, but it more means that they'd have made it to their destination without getting lost along the way If so, with respect to something relevant I have to give a Yes to this too (the North? A city? An island?)? But not these Is the sea part of the Atlantic Ocean relevantly? Again, not specifically Tides and winds relevant? No

Did they know in which sea they were sailing? Yesish Relevant where they set out? No Or maybe they were pirates stealing other boats (e.g. they stole steamships)? No Had they been in Atlantic Ocean, would they have know that they were sailing in the Atlantic Ocean? Yes, so rest are No/Irrel Or they would have believed to sail somewhere else? If so, relevant where they would have believed to sail?

Sea = Mediterranean Sea? Red Sea? Black Sea? Arctic sea? A sea on Earth? No to all
Did they base on a map relevantly to find the way? Eventually If so, were minor seas signed on the map? Irrel Was there: a wind rose? No geographic coordinates? Yes

Don't know much about compasses to find the way in the sea/Ocean, but still, since Ocean is bigger than a sea, is the width of the opening of the compass relevant? No ...maybe it has something to do with min/max radius of the circle that can be made on a map by opening the compass (which fits in an Ocean but not in a sea)? No Unless I am wrongly translating the word "compass"... There are two tools that share the name "compass"; I'm referring to the one used for navigation, not the one used for drawing

Magnetism relevant? Magnetic field? Disturbance to magnetic field? No to all
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Doriana » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:11 pm

The sea is neither on Earth nor in space, correct? Is it on a planet? Does this sea exist in real, 3D space? Or is a virtual sea?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:05 am

Is the compass pointing roughly towards geographical north? Or is it pointing south? Are they in a fictional setting? WAG: do they relevantly not know that the magnetic north pole on earth is actually what we'd call the south pole on a magnet? Are they in a place where compasses work differently? Are they on a spheroid body? In a universe with 3 spatial and one time dimension?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Earnest » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:27 am

Is the compass pointing roughly towards geographical north? Or is it pointing south? --> I would add "or to what you most desire" as in Pirates of Caribbean?
Was Compass considered an advanced tool for the time when they were sailing? Does it work properly (i.e. as a normal compass)? Do they know how to read it? Assuming that the compass works as it is supposed to do normally, is it a relevant information for them where the North on the Earth was?

Is the sea on Earth? No! --> does it meant that: it has never been on Earth in the past? That it will never be on Earth? that it is under Earth? In the space? In the solar system?
Is it a sea where they were sailing made of water? Of magma? Of gas? Of some relevant chemical element? Is the sea bigger than any ocean on Earth? Bigger the Earth? Smaller than any sea/Ocean on Earth? An artificial sea? a man made sea? A fictional sea appearing on the screen of a PC/TV?

Did they know in which sea they were sailing? Yesish --> does it have a name that shows up in maps? In astronomic maps? were they sailing on a ship? Is Pan relevant?


WAG --> Sahara Sea relevant? I knew about a project of flooding a great part of Sahara or something like that. So people walking in the middle of Sahara are technically walking over a potential sea. Maybe they had a broken compass...or being on a desert, and knowing where the North was did not help them a lot since they had not a map nor reference points (so basically they knew where the North was but they did not know where they would have ended up by going to the North direction).
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Balin » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:09 pm

The sea is neither on Earth nor in space, correct? Correct Is it on a planet? No Does this sea exist in real, 3D space? No Or is a virtual sea? Yes

Is the compass pointing roughly towards geographical north? Or is it pointing south? Neither, good q Are they in a fictional setting? Yes WAG: do they relevantly not know that the magnetic north pole on earth is actually what we'd call the south pole on a magnet? No Are they in a place where compasses work differently? Yes Are they on a spheroid body? No In a universe with 3 spatial and one time dimension? Yes

Is the compass pointing "to what you most desire" as in Pirates of Caribbean? No
Was Compass considered an advanced tool for the time when they were sailing? No Does it work properly Yes (i.e. as a normal compass)? but No! Do they know how to read it? No! Assuming that the compass works as it is supposed to do normally, is it a relevant information for them where the North on the Earth was?

Is the sea on Earth? No! --> does it meant that: it has never been on Earth in the past? That it will never be on Earth?Both of these that it is under Earth? In the space? In the solar system? No
Is it a sea where they were sailing made of water? This Of magma? Of gas? Of some relevant chemical element? Is the sea bigger than any ocean on Earth? No Bigger the Earth? Smaller than any sea/Ocean on Earth? An artificial sea? a man made sea? A fictional sea appearing on the screen of a PC/TV? This!

Did they know in which sea they were sailing? Yesish --> does it have a name that shows up in maps? No In astronomic maps? No were they sailing on a ship? Small boats Is Pan relevant? No

WAG --> Sahara Sea relevant? I knew about a project of flooding a great part of Sahara or something like that. So people walking in the middle of Sahara are technically walking over a potential sea. Maybe they had a broken compass...or being on a desert, and knowing where the North was did not help them a lot since they had not a map nor reference points (so basically they knew where the North was but they did not know where they would have ended up by going to the North direction). Interesting guess, but No
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Doriana » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:08 pm

Is the sea in a video game? a simulator?

Do cardinal directions work differently in this virtual world?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Balin » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:14 am

Is the sea in a video game? This a simulator?

Do cardinal directions work differently in this virtual world? No
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:00 am

Is the compass pointing towards their destination? Did they think it was pointing north? Do they know anything relevant about real life sailing? Real life compasses? Is the compass an in-universe item? An in-universe item with UI functionality?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Balin » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:04 pm

Is the compass pointing towards their destination? No Did they think it was pointing north? Yes Do they know anything relevant about real life sailing? No Real life compasses? Yes Is the compass an in-universe item? Yes An in-universe item with UI functionality? Yes
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:09 pm

Is the compass pointing in some other carinal direction? Or direction in between those? Towards some point in the game world? Towards different things at different times? Is it not indicating direction at all, but something else? Do they end up going in circles?
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Re: [Balin] You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Balin » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:35 pm

Is the compass pointing in some other carinal direction? Or direction in between those? Towards some point in the game world? This, and I think that's enough. Towards different things at different times? Is it not indicating direction at all, but something else? Do they end up going in circles? Yes

****SPOILER****

The group is playing Minecraft and is trying to navigate with a compass while sailing. However, they read the compass as pointing north, when in the game it points to the player's spawn point, so they get lost. Had they been actually sailing in the Atlantic Ocean, they would have correctly read the compass and not have gotten lost.

Nicely done! (At some point I'll make a puzzle that last more than 20 posts...)
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Re: [Balin] (*BON VOYAGE!*) You mean "bon voyage"

Postby WiZ » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:44 am

(At some point I'll make a puzzle that last more than 20 posts...)

After telling myself that for 20 years, I invented the OAATP, most of which still get solved within 20 posts.
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Re: [Balin] (*BON VOYAGE!*) You mean "bon voyage"

Postby Earnest » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:33 am

Coool!
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