Lateral Puzzles • View topic

by **WiZ** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:03 am

A family friend was a member of a rather unusual choir. They would perform and hold concerts in the Waitomo Glowworm Caves.

They later went on an international tour, performing in cave systems around the world. They did notice, however, that they got a tremendously frosty reception in the United States; one bordering on aggressive at times.

Why should that be so?

True story. No caveat.

by **GalFisk** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:05 am

Frosty: emotionally cold? Physically cold? Relevant which US cave systems they performed at? What they sang? How they looked? Sounded? Their name? Something related to US culture? Commerce? Beliefs? Something that could happen in other countries? Something that could've been avoided in the US? If so, by changing something about the performance? The caves?

by **WiZ** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:00 pm

Frosty: emotionally cold? yes Physically cold? no Relevant which US cave systems they performed at? specific systems, no, but explore (spelunk?) What they sang? How they looked? Sounded? no to these Their name? yes Something related to US culture? yes Commerce? no Beliefs? yes Something that could happen in other countries? yes, albeit less likelily Something that could've been avoided in the US? yes If so, by changing something about the performance? no, small ish The caves? no

by **hominid** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:26 pm

Is it related to language? religion? politics? food? sports? history? geography? Racism relevant?

Did they get a frosty reception from one specific group of Americans? Americans in general?

Is the region of the US they were in relevant? Were they in the West? Midwest? South? Northeast?

by **WiZ** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:34 pm

Is it related to language? religion? politics? yes to all food? sports? history? geography? Racism relevant? no to rest

Did they get a frosty reception from one specific group of Americans? yes Americans in general? no

Is the region of the US they were in relevant? yes Were they in the West? Midwest? South? this Northeast?

by **AlbatrossLover** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:28 pm

Is the choir's name in English?

Were the offended people christians? Relevant the specific denomination? Were they Evangelicals? Mormons? Catholics? Baptists?

Did they misunderstand something? Did they see the choir as attacking their beliefs? Think it was 'demonic'?

by **JenBurdoo** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:18 pm

Is the name of their group relevant? Anything related to their dress? How they presented themselves? Their business cards or other literature handed out to the audience?

Were those who booked them to sing aware of this issue? Were the staff of the relevant cave or park as aware of, or offended by, the issue as the audience was? Or is only the audience relevant?

Would this same reception, for the same reason, have been had in any other country?

by **GalFisk** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:36 pm

Would changing their name suffice? Names of other groups relevant? Other people? Names of places? Events? Did the southerners think they were some other group? And were disappointed that they weren't?

by **WiZ** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:54 am

AlbatrossLover

Is the choir's name in English? no!

Were the offended people christians? yes Relevant the specific denomination? I don't know if it was a pivotal factor, but it probably wouldn't surprise you to find out Were they Evangelicals? yes Mormons? Catholics? no to both, although the risk would be there with either Baptists? yes

Did they misunderstand something? yes Did they see the choir as attacking their beliefs? yes Think it was 'demonic'? Quite possibly!

JenBurdoo

Is the name of their group relevant? yes! Anything related to their dress? How they presented themselves? Their business cards or other literature handed out to the audience? no to rest (in fact, a judicious application of literature could have averted the problem)

Were those who booked them to sing aware of this issue? no Were the staff of the relevant cave or park as aware of, or offended by, the issue as the audience was? no Or is only the audience relevant? yes

Would this same reception, for the same reason, have been had in any other country? It is possible, but a combination of factors make the US strongly the most likely candidate

GalFisk

Would changing their name suffice? yes Names of other groups relevant? Other people? yesish to both Names of places? Events? no to both Did the southerners think they were some other group? yesish And were disappointed that they weren't? but no

by **AlbatrossLover** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:39 am

Is the language the choir's name is in relevant? Maori?

Did they mishear the name? Think the choir was related to another religion? A secular group they didn't like? A political party? A specific person?

by **hominid** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:44 am

Is the name in Māori? Relevant?

Does the name relate to Satan? Christianity? God? Jesus? Is it something specific to American Christians? A word that only Americans would use in connection with Christianity? Is an American public figure relevant?

by **WiZ** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:18 am

AlbatrossLover

Is the language the choir's name is in relevant? Maori? Yes, it is in Maori

Did they mishear the name? yes Think the choir was related to another religion? A secular group they didn't like? A political party? A specific person? no to all

Hominid

Is the name in Māori? Relevant? Yes to both

Does the name relate to Satan? Christianity? God? Jesus? no to all Is it something specific to American Christians? A word that only Americans would use in connection with Christianity? Is an American public figure relevant? no to all

by **Balin** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:29 am

Is the Maori name spelled or pronounced the same as a curse in English? As something that could be considered blasphemous?

by **WiZ** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:43 am

Is the Maori name spelled or pronounced the same as a curse in English? yesish, but it's not the naughty word itself that is upsetting As something that could be considered blasphemous? yes in the broad sense of something profane or offensive to god, no in the narrow sense of 'The Goddamn better-than-sex-with-Mary-Magdalene caves choir'

by **Balin** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:44 am

Something related to Satan or the devil?

by **WiZ** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:46 am

Something related to Satan or the devil? no

by **AlbatrossLover** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:08 am

Does it sound like the word is directed at God/Jesus/Christians? Does the misunderstanding happen when they hear the name by itself? In a sentence? A sentence/phrase that contains words related to religion?

by **WiZ** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:21 am

Does it sound like the word is directed at God/Jesus/Christians? no Does the misunderstanding happen when they hear the name by itself? Correct, it would need no context In a sentence? The troublesome word is part of a larger sentence, but this is irrelevant A sentence/phrase that contains words related to religion? no

by **Balin** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:03 pm

Is the word identical to a word from the Bible?

by **WiZ** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:31 pm

Is the word identical to a word from the Bible? no

by **Enjay** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:57 pm

Is it relevant that the choir performs in caves? Is it relevant that they are in fact a choir - would say a visiting sports team with the same name have caused the same effect?

You said politics is relevant as well as religion - would the name have offended people of a particular political persuasion? Did it seem to reference a political belief? A political figure?

Did the name suggest that the choir held a particular belief or beliefs? Did it suggest they were mocking the people who would have been offended? Is it relevant whether people knew they were a choir when they got offended? Would the offence have persisted even once they knew the group was a choir?

by **AlbatrossLover** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:41 am

Is it a swear word that's usually more offensive for religious people? That had an origin relating to religion? Politics?

by **WiZ** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:42 am

Enjay

Is it relevant that the choir performs in caves? yes Is it relevant that they are in fact a choir no - would say a visiting sports team with the same name have caused the same effect? yes

You said politics is relevant as well as religion - would the name have offended people of a particular political persuasion? yes Did it seem to reference a political belief? A political figure? no to both

Did the name suggest that the choir held a particular belief or beliefs? 'belief' isn't quite right, but ORT Did it suggest they were mocking the people who would have been offended? not mocking, no Is it relevant whether people knew they were a choir when they got offended? no Would the offence have persisted even once they knew the group was a choir? yes

AlbatrossLover

Is it a swear word that's usually more offensive for religious people? yes, on the balance That had an origin relating to religion? Politics? no to both

by **biograd** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:07 am

Is the relevance of the caves that the choir's name somehow refers to caves? and it wouldn't have any reason to have this name if they didn't perform there? Or is it rather that the name would only be seen as offensive when used in context with people who were in a cave?

Is the idea of cavemen (and their use to represent uncivilized humans in general) relevant?

Politics and religion is relevant--so is it the "Christian Right" that would mainly take offense at this? If so, do they think the name refers to/says something about them? or rather seems to promote something that such people would consider immoral?

by **GalFisk** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:11 pm

Does the swear word mention god? Heaven? Hell? The devil? Some demon?

by **Enjay** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:24 pm

Is the word Christ relevant? Links between caves/underground and hell? The cave Jesus rose from?

Would the people who would take offence do so if they heard the name of the choir said with no context? If they saw it written down? If they saw a poster for the choir that didn't mention they would be in a cave?

by **WiZ** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:59 pm

Biograd

Is the relevance of the caves that the choir's name somehow refers to caves? yes and it wouldn't have any reason to have this name if they didn't perform there? yes Or is it rather that the name would only be seen as offensive when used in context with people who were in a cave? no

Is the idea of cavemen (and their use to represent uncivilized humans in general) relevant? no

Politics and religion is relevant--so is it the "Christian Right" that would mainly take offense at this? Very much so, yes If so, do they think the name refers to/says something about them? no or rather seems to promote something that such people would consider immoral? yes

Good questions, Biograd.

GalFisk

Does the swear word mention god? Heaven? Hell? The devil? Some demon? no to all

Enjay

Is the word Christ relevant? Links between caves/underground and hell? The cave Jesus rose from? no to all

Would the people who would take offence do so if they heard the name of the choir said with no context? yes If they saw it written down? no! If they saw a poster for the choir that didn't mention they would be in a cave? and no

by **AlbatrossLover** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:03 am

Does the word make it seem like they are promoting premarital sex? Atheism? Abortion? LGBTQ rights? Evolution?

by **WiZ** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:24 am

Does the word make it seem like they are promoting premarital sex? Atheism? Abortion? LGBTQ rights? this; no to rest Evolution?

by **AlbatrossLover** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:24 am

Does the name sound like a slur? A sex act? A word relating to gay people? Bi people? Trans people? Nonbinary people? Like the acronym itself?

Is the name of the original cave system mentioned in the first post relevant?

by **WiZ** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:32 am

Does the name sound like a slur? yes A sex act? no A word relating to gay people? this; no (or less pointedly) to rest Bi people? Trans people? Nonbinary people? Like the acronym itself?

Is the name of the original cave system mentioned in the first post relevant? yes!

by **AlbatrossLover** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:41 am

Is their name something like 'Waitomo choir' in Maori? Otherwise the word Waitomo relevant? In conjunction with another word? Is the word glowworm part of their name/relavant?

Is the slur only/mostly used in the South?

by **WiZ** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:44 am

Is their name something like 'Waitomo choir' in Maori? Their name is exactly that - The Waitomo Choir. Otherwise the word Waitomo relevant? yes In conjunction with another word? no Is the word glowworm part of their name/relavant? no

Is the slur only/mostly used in the South? no

by **biograd** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:56 am

Oh I think I see it :-)

. I'll avoid writing out what I think they hear for now, so that others can notice it too.

by **AlbatrossLover** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:04 am

Are they hearing it as something-homo...? White homo?

by **WiZ** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:08 am

Are they hearing it as something-homo...? White homo?

***** SPOILER *****

The choir was named the Waitomo Choir. This was almost universally misheard as 'White Homo Choir' in the South. They found the very mention of their name to lead to a dead receiver when on the phone to agents, and a cold silence falling over bars, restaurants, hostel dining rooms and gatherings

They even tried stressing the correct Maori pronunciation, more like 'Why-tore-more', but nonetheless elicited the same response. They were usually able to clear up the misunderstanding quickly enough. Usually.

Congratulations to AlbatrossLover and Biograd on the solution, and thank you everyone for playing!

by **AlbatrossLover** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:20 am

And here I was sure that guess was too silly... guess you could say that about the whole situation though. And it made for a pretty cool puzzle so. I wonder how long it would take someone who was told this puzzle verbally to realise...

by **JenBurdoo** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:30 am

Wow. Pronunciation can be a killer, in a lot of these puzzles.

[WiZ] Not Exactly Glowing Praise

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