[klondike mary] Look away

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[klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:17 am

When he was a student, Rob's family underwent a traumatic event, which changed his life forever.
As an adult, he witnessed something similar happening to his boss.
When it happened a third time, years later, Rob became nervous about going out in public at all. Superstition maybe, but understandable.

When he was an old man, a ceremony was held honoring his late father. Rob wanted very much to attend. It would look like he was slighting his father if he didn't. But he was afraid of what might happen. After some consideration, he reached a compromise, which involved blurring the difference between 'inside' and 'outside.' And it seemed to work, after a fashion.

What was the compromise?
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby Earnest » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:50 pm

So was Rob the cause of the traumatic event? Was Rob's presence? Is the traumatic event catastrophic? Leading to death? Accidental? Provoked by Rob?

Can we assume that Rob is HAM, no handicap nor particular signs? Fiction relevant? Did it happen in real life?

Did he think that the same traumatic event could happen to whoever surrounded him? To someone he knew only? To anyone coming in contact with him? To anyone seeing him? Spending time with him? Talking to him?
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:50 pm

So was Rob the cause of the traumatic event? Was Rob's presence? No to both. Is the traumatic event catastrophic? Leading to death? [b]Yes to both.[/b]Accidental? Provoked by Rob?No to both.
Can we assume that Rob is HAM, no handicap nor particular signs?[b]Yes, good assumptions.[/b] Fiction relevant? Did it happen in real life? IRL.

Did he think that the same traumatic event could happen to whoever surrounded him? To someone he knew only? To anyone coming in contact with him? To anyone seeing him? Spending time with him? Talking to him? He thought these traumas might happen to people in a certain category, not just anyone he happened to meet.
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby AlbatrossLover » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:43 pm

Did the traumatic event directly cause the death of his father? Did it involve a crime? Murder? Natural disaster? Did his boss die? Someone close to his boss? Did the third time it happened involve Rob's family?

Did he think it happened to people he was close to? People who were with him in certain situations? In certain places?
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:06 pm

Did the traumatic event directly cause the death of his father? Did it involve a crime? Murder?Yes to all three. Natural disaster? Did his boss die? Yes.
Did the third time it happened involve Rob's family?

Did he think it happened to people he was close to?Yessish People who were with him in certain situations? In certain places? Yes to both.
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:08 pm

Ooops, missed a q. The third time did not involve his family.
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby AlbatrossLover » Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:26 pm

Were all three incidents murder? Did they all happen indoors? Outdoors? Is the cause of death in each relevant? The motive? The culprit?

Did the third incident happen to a friend? Acquaintance? Stranger?

Does the situation he's trying to avoid involve large groups of people gathered in the same place? Being out at a certain time? A specific type of social event?
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:10 am

Were all three incidents murder? Yes.Did they all happen indoors? Outdoors? Some in, some out. Is the cause of death in each relevant? Yes. The motive? Yes. The culprit? No.

Did the third incident happen to a friend? I would say, to someone with whom he was on friendly terms. Acquaintance? Stranger?

Does the situation he's trying to avoid involve large groups of people gathered in the same place? All the situations did involve large groups, yes.Being out at a certain time? N.r. A specific type of social event? Yes.
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby AlbatrossLover » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:21 am

Are the murders done in the heat of the moment? Premeditated? Could the motives be described as: jealousy? Greed? Revenge? Hatred? Insanity? Self-defense?

Was each murder seen by multiple people as it happened? By Rob?

Did all the victims die the same way? Were they shot? Stabbed? Poisoned? Asphixiated? Hit with a blunt object?

Did the murders happen at parties? Family reunions? Commemorative events? Weddings? Funerals?
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby Earnest » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:35 am

so we are talking about murders and never suicides right? Relevant how people is murdered? With weapons? guns? knives? venom? Through manumission of engines? Natural causes induced by something (e.g. provoked heart attacked)? Electroshok? Murders from a long distance? Relevant?

Relevant who was involved the third time? Someone close to him? Is the relevant part of the murders: 1) the murderer? Was the murderer Rob? Someone that Rob knew? A group of people? The one who dies? Always the same murderer for the 3 events? 2) did Rob see the people dying right before they were murdered? Right after? 3) Rob's job relevant? Spy? Doctor? Professor? Priest? Others? 4) is the presence of Rob fundamental for the murder to happen? 5) Did the people murdered know something they should not? Saw something they should have not? Deduced something? Were they all HAM? Were they all simply in the wrong place at the wrong time (i.e. accidental murders or something similar)? Did they share a secret? Did they all know something about Rob?

The murders all happened when Rob was around right? Were the murders directed somehow to Rob? I.e. to threaten him? to protect him? Or maybe did they happen because of him? (i.e. he was the indirect or direct cause of the murders) To be sure: did the murders happen in real life? Double personality. of Rob relevant?


blurring the difference between 'inside' and 'outside.' --> is this the same as saying "the difference between 'indoor' and 'outdoor'"? or is it inside and outside as inserted somewhere or not inserted? Are 'inside' and 'outside' referred to Rob? To a part of his body? To something? To something belonging to Rob? Did Rob manage to "fool the system" by exploiting such a difference? To fool someone in particular?
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:36 pm

Are the murders done in the heat of the moment? Premeditated?This. Could the motives be described as: jealousy? Greed? Revenge? Hatred? Insanity? Self-defense?Revenge and hatred seem most likely.

Was each murder seen by multiple people as it happened? Yes. By Rob?..but not always by Rob.

Did all the victims die the same way? Were they shot?Yes to both.Stabbed? Poisoned? Asphixiated? Hit with a blunt object?

Did the murders happen at parties? Family reunions? Commemorative events? Weddings? Funerals?None of these exactly fits. Keep exploring!
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:30 pm

So we are talking about murders and never suicides right?True.Relevant how people is murdered? With weapons? guns?Yes - see above. knives? venom? Through manumission of engines? Natural causes induced by something (e.g. provoked heart attacked)? Electroshok? Murders from a long distance? Relevant?

Relevant who was involved the third time?Yes. Someone close to him? I would say relatively close - but not a relative or close friend., DOYD.Is the relevant part of the murders: 1) the murderer? No.Was the murderer Rob? Someone that Rob knew? A group of people? The one who dies? No, no, no, no to all. Always the same murderer for the 3 events? No, 3 different perps.2) did Rob see the people dying right before they were murdered?Uknown. Right after? ..but certainly after. 3) Rob's job relevant? Not to the crimes.Spy? Doctor? Professor? Priest? Others?All n.r. 4) is the presence of Rob fundamental for the murder to happen?No. 5) Did the people murdered know something they should not? Saw something they should have not? Deduced something?All n.r. Were they all HAM? [b]Yes.[/b]Were they all simply in the wrong place at the wrong time (i.e. accidental murders or something similar)? Did they share a secret? Did they all know something about Rob?All of these n.r.

The murders all happened when Rob was around right? Somewhere in the area, yes. Were the murders directed somehow to Rob? I.e. to threaten him? to protect him? Or maybe did they happen because of him? (i.e. he was the indirect or direct cause of the murders)No to all. To be sure: did the murders happen in real life?Yes. Double personality. of Rob relevant?[b]NO[/b]

Blurring the difference between 'inside' and 'outside.' --> is this the same as saying "the difference between 'indoor' and 'outdoor'"?Yessish. or is it inside and outside as inserted somewhere or not inserted? Are 'inside' and 'outside' referred to Rob?Yes - to his being both inside and outside at the same time. To a part of his body? To something? To something belonging to Rob? Did Rob manage to "fool the system" by exploiting such a difference? To fool someone in particular? 'Fooling the system' sort of relevant. Perhaps 'fooling Nemesis' would better express it.
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby trebor » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:44 pm

PMing guess.
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby Earnest » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:16 am

Do the relevant social events all involve people that Rob knew (i.e. Rob knew everyone?)? Were such gatherings of religious nature? Gatherings of a sect? Gatherings of people with which Rob works? Gatherings of people sharing an hobby with Rob? A passion? Gatherings of people betting? costume parties? Organized gatherings? Concerts?

Is someone necessarily killed at each one of such gatherings? i.e. regardless Rob's presence?

Were the people with which he gathers, public of a show? Does Rob interact with them? Eat with them? Have fun with them? Discuss/talk with them? Pray with them? Celebrate someone with them? Play with them?

Dinner with crimes relevant?

Yes - to his being both inside and outside at the same time --> in the sense of being physically inside or outside? Or maybe to be metaphorically "in" or "out" (e.g. as in "I am in for doing something"?)? If the former, being inside and outside of a room? Being on the door? Being masked? Being inside but with the possibility of going outside suddenly?
E.g. on a terrace? On a covered place in a garden? Up in the sky? On a rooftop? half way inside and outside of a building? A relevant building? A castle? An house? a church? an hotel? A Game Center? A cinema? A prison?
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby Balin » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:40 pm

PM on the way
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:39 am

Do the relevant social events all involve people that Rob knewSome he knew, some he didn't. (i.e. Rob knew everyone?)?Not everyone, but many people. Were such gatherings of religious nature? Gatherings of a sect? Gatherings of people with which Rob works? Gatherings of people sharing an hobby with Rob? A passion? Gatherings of people betting? costume parties?No, noish, or n.r. to all. Organized gatherings?Yes. Concerts?No, although music might be played incidentally.

Is someone necessarily killed at each one of such gatherings? i.e. regardless Rob's presence? [b]Many such gatherings were held without any untoward happenings. Rob began to think his presence was the catalyst.[/b]

Were the people with which he gathers, public of a show? Does Rob interact with them? Eat with them? Have fun with them? Discuss/talk with them? Pray with them? Celebrate someone with them? Play with them?All no or n.r.Dinner with crimes relevant?[b]n.r.[/b]

Yes - to his being both inside and outside at the same time --> in the sense of being physically inside or outside? Or maybe to be metaphorically "in" or "out" (e.g. as in "I am in for doing something"?)?[b]Physically, not metaphorically. [/b]If the former, being inside and outside of a room? Being on the door? Being masked? Being inside but with the possibility of going outside suddenly?
E.g. on a terrace? [b]This is closest. Explore. [/b]On a covered place in a garden? Up in the sky? On a rooftop? half way inside and outside of a building? A relevant building? A castle? An house? a church? an hotel? A Game Center? A cinema? A prison? The building is relevant, but it is not any of these.
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:59 am

Balin and Trebor are both correct. Rob was Robert Todd Lincoln, who was present or nearby on the occasion of 3 murders, his father's, Garfield's, and McKinley's.

But what about the last part of the puzzle, the inside/outside part?
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby Earnest » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:56 am

E.g. on a terrace? [b]This is closest. Explore --> so being the son of Lincoln, I guess the celebration was a national day or something similar right? I was guessing an opened mean of transportation but this has nothing to do with a terrace xD.

Its the building: a memorial? A statue? a panoramic wheel? An hospital? a theater (e.g. he was on the stage...or maybe an opened arena, like Colosseum)? White House?

WAG --> he went there in a grave (so the graveyard is outside but he Wass the only one inside the coffin)
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:59 am

E.g. on a terrace? This is closest. Explore --> so being the son of Lincoln, I guess the celebration was a national day or something similar right?[b]Yessish.I was guessing an opened mean of transportation but this has nothing to do with a terrace xD. Transportation nr..

Its the building: a memorial? Yes. A statue?There is a statue in it. a panoramic wheel? An hospital? a theater (e.g. he was on the stage...or maybe an opened arena, like Colosseum)? White House? all n.rWAG --> he went there in a grave (so the graveyard is outside but he Wass the only one inside the coffin) n.r.
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby Earnest » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:07 am

So was it the Lincoln Memorial? The opening/inauguration of the Lincoln Memorial (e.g. he was the only one inside the memorial and other people outside or viceversa)? Or maybe a building with a relevantly opened roof (so inside and outside)? Or maybe a building with walls made of glass so that one is inside the building but can see also thee outside? Again a guess: I don't know if at the time there were cameras/pictures or the possibility to follow the ceremony distant from it, in that case he could have had taken part to the ceremony not being physically present. Something along these lines?

blurring the difference between 'inside' and 'outside.' = being both inside and outside? Had someone asked he could have answered that he was inside the building? Outside? Both? could someone else have blurred the difference between inside and outside the same exact way he did? If so, also if he made it first?
maybe does it involve a legal boundary? Or maybe an always opened door? Or maybe no door at all (e.g. the building has no doors at all so that one could always state to be outside) To be sure: he was inside and outside of the memorial?

he reached a compromise, which involved blurring the difference between 'inside' and 'outside.' --> if the above is correct, when her reached the compromise, was he the only one being inside and outside at the same time? All people gathering?
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:13 pm

So was it the Lincoln Memorial?[b]Yes.[/b] The opening/inauguration of the Lincoln Memorial [b]Yes.[/b](e.g. he was the only one inside the memorial and other people outside or viceversa)? [b][b]Vice-versa.[/b][/b]Or maybe a building with a relevantly opened roof (so inside and outside)? Or maybe a building with walls made of glass so that one is inside the building but can see also thee outside? Again a guess: I don't know if at the time there were cameras/pictures or the possibility to follow the ceremony distant from it, in that case he could have had taken part to the ceremony not being physically present. Something along these lines?[b]As this was in the early 1920s, no.[/b]
blurring the difference between 'inside' and 'outside.' = being both inside and outside? Had someone asked he could have answered that he was inside the building? Outside?He would have said he was outside. Both? could someone else have blurred the difference between inside and outside the same exact way he did? If so, also if he made it first?Yes, someone else could say this as well.
aybe does it involve a legal boundary? [b]No.[/b]Or maybe an always opened door? Or maybe no door at all (e.g. the building has no doors at all so that one could always state to be outside) To be sure: he was inside and outside of the memorial?[b]The Lincoln Memorial does have a gate; don't know if it was in place at the time. If you have seen the Memorial, or even pictures of it, you will note one thing it does have, which is relevant.[/b]

reached a compromise, which involved blurring the difference between 'inside' and 'outside.' --> if the above is correct, when her reached the compromise, was he the only one being inside and outside at the same time?He was the only one. All people gathering?[b]No. [/b]
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby Earnest » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:48 am

If you have seen the Memorial, or even pictures of it, you will note one thing it does have, which is relevant. --> I have never been there but maybe I can google a picture...

so first of all he claimed to be outside while others were inside. With respect to the others was he: outside and up (e.g. roof)? outside on the same plane? outside and down (e.g. down the stairs)? Is the water in front of the memorial relevant (was it relevantly present at the time? Relevantly not present?)? Is, in general, something that today is present not present at the time? Vice versa (i.e. something present at the time and removed nowadays)? Is the statue relevant?


WAG --> maybe he refused the official invitation (which would have allowed him to be inside the memorial during the inauguration) and stay outside with the other people coming to the event. A sort of superstition.

Was he the only politician outside the memorial? The only Lincoln outside the memorial?
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Re: [klondike mary] Look away

Postby klondike mary » Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:09 pm

so first of all he claimed to be outside while others were inside. With respect to the others was he: outside and up (e.g. roof)? outside on the same plane? [b]This.[/b]outside and down (e.g. down the stairs)? Is the water in front of the memorial relevant (was it relevantly present at the time? Water n.r.Relevantly not present?)? Is, in general, something that today is present not present at the time? Vice versa (i.e. something present at the time and removed nowadays)?[b]The relevant feature is the portico, or 'porch,' which was/is present both now and then.[/b] Is the statue relevant? [b]No.[/b]


WAG --> maybe he refused the official invitation (which would have allowed him to be inside the memorial during the inauguration) and stay outside with the other people coming to the event. A sort of superstition. [b]Yessish.[/b]

Was he the only politician outside the memorial? [b]AFAIK[/b]The only Lincoln outside the memorial? [b]Yes.[/b]

[b]***************SPOILER******************
Robert Todd Lincoln visited the Memorial to his father, met and was even photographed with President Harding, but reasoned that if he was not actually under the same roof with the president during the ceremony, the 'curse' would not take effect. He opted to sit in a rocking chair on the portico, facing away from the celebration.
It seemed to work. Harding did die in office, but it was a natural death (unless you believe the legend that his wife poisoned him.) But by that time, Robert Lincoln had himself passed away.
'Look Away' is also the refrain of the song 'Dixie,' which Abraham Lincoln claimed as 'legitimate spoils of war.'
[/b]
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