[WiZ] I'm not dead

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[WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby WiZ » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:45 am

Two men apply for the same job. Neither are successful, but it is believed the first man missed out on the job due to the second man's name. How come?

BOATS. No caveat.
Last edited by WiZ on Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby GalFisk » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:15 am

Are their names similar? Identical? Mixed up somehow? Is there something special with the first man's name? The second? WAG: does the second man's name mess up something? Such as a printer? Computer?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby Doriana » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:18 am

Is the second man Little Bobby Tables?

Is the second man's whole name relevant? First name? middle name? last name?

Elections relevant at all?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby WiZ » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:56 pm

GalFisk

Are their names similar? Identical? to each other's? no Mixed up somehow? yope Is there something special with the first man's name? no The second? yesish WAG: does the second man's name mess up something? no Such as a printer? Computer? n/a to both

Doriana

Is the second man Little Bobby Tables? no - I do remember this panel, though, and was recently reading Matt Parker's Humble Pi which talked of an employee with the (legitimate) surname 'Null' which caused similar problems for payroll and staff searches. Good book, btw

Is the second man's whole name relevant? yes First name? middle name? no to this, though last name?

Elections relevant at all? *sigh* Yes
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:34 pm

Did one man change his name? Is the order in which they appeared on the ballot relevant? Unusual layout relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby trebor » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:18 pm

Do they have names that are opposites, like John Taylor and Taylor John? If so (and assuming that they’re candidates in the election), did that confuse voters and split the vote enough that a third person won?

Failing that, are the two people actually on the ballot?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby Balin » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:19 am

I second the "Humbie Pi" recommendation. Have read that and his earlier "Things to Make and Do in the Fourth Dimension" - both are excellent.

Is one man's name the same as that of another man's party?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby WiZ » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:01 am

JenBurdoo

Did one man change his name? no Is the order in which they appeared on the ballot relevant? no Unusual layout relevant? no

Trebor

Do they have names that are opposites, like John Taylor and Taylor John? no If so (and assuming that they’re candidates in the election), did that confuse voters and split the vote enough that a third person won? this is very much ORT, but the two were in no way confused for each other

Failing that, are the two people actually on the ballot? yes

Balin

I haven't read the Fourth Dimension book - must add it to the list

Is one man's name the same as that of another man's party? no
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby Earnest » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:42 am

Are they both candidates in the election? Are they candidate for the same political party? Is the name of the second candidate the same as a party? The same as another politician? Is it a name of historical relevance? Relevant where the elections took place? Were they national elections? Local ones? Are the candidates known? Are they both politician by profession? Does the second have a stage name? a fantasy name? Has the second candidate an English name? A name with a particular meaning? Its the order in which there names are displayed relevant? Candidate A = first and Candidate B = second. Is the order: A B? vice versa? Or maybe is there a third candidate between them like A C B? Did the votes of the second candidate go to C?

Relevant who were the voters? Was it a private election (e.g. president of an association)? A public one? relevant?

Are the elections made relevantly online?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby trebor » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:41 pm

Was one of the first two candidates mistaken for the third?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby wunderland » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:33 pm

Did the second candidate's name look like an instruction to voters?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby WiZ » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:35 pm

Earnest

Are they both candidates in the election? yes Are they candidate for the same political party? no Is the name of the second candidate the same as a party? no The same as another politician? yes! Is it a name of historical relevance? no Relevant where the elections took place? no Were they national elections? yes Local ones? no Are the candidates known? yope Are they both politician by profession? yes Does the second have a stage name? a fantasy name? no to both Has the second candidate an English name? yes (at least, a name that English people have) A name with a particular meaning? no Its the order in which there names are displayed relevant? no Candidate A = first and Candidate B = second. Is the order: A B? vice versa? Or maybe is there a third candidate between them like A C B? irrel to all Did the votes of the second candidate go to C? no

Relevant who were the voters? no Was it a private election (e.g. president of an association)? no A public one? yes relevant? yes - this scenario would almost certainly not happen in a private election

Are the elections made relevantly online? no

Trebor

Was one of the first two candidates mistaken for the third? no, but getting warmer

Wunderland

Hi, Wunderland! I believe this is our first interaction.

Did the second candidate's name look like an instruction to voters? no
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby Doriana » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:37 pm

Is the other relevant politician also on the ballot? Are the second politician and the third politician related to each other? If so, father and son? Or is the name just a coincidence?

Write-in candidates relevant at all?

Relevant how many candidates were on the ballot in total?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby AlbatrossLover » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:36 am

Do some people vote for the second candidate because they think he's the other politician? Or because they think the two are somehow related? Is the politician he shares a name with still alive? Popular? Holding a public office?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby WiZ » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:10 am

Doriana

Is the other relevant politician also on the ballot? No, small ish Are the second politician and the third politician related to each other? I'm looking back over the answers so far and I'm reading 'the third politician' as the one who won. In which case the answer is no. If so, father and son? n/a Or is the name just a coincidence? There is a relevant coincidental name at play, yes

Write-in candidates relevant at all? no

Relevant how many candidates were on the ballot in total? no - it could in theory have been just those three on this particular ballot.

AlbatrossLover

Do some people vote for the second candidate because they think he's the other politician? They vote for him because they think he is *an* other politician, yes Or because they think the two are somehow related? no Is the politician he shares a name with still alive? Popular? Holding a public office? yes to all!
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby AlbatrossLover » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:25 am

Is the other politician an incumbent who isn't running for reelection? And the second candidate shares a name with him, making people mistakenly vote for him?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby trebor » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:53 am

I suspect AlbatrossLover may have hit on it, but in case not: is the third person someone who holds a greater office than the one the other two are running for?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby Earnest » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:23 pm

But the third one is a candidate as well right as per the following answer: "no - it could in theory have been just those three on this particular ballot.
"

If it so, maybe the name of the third candidate was barred with an X by way of example to show people how to vote? I mean, had people mistaken only the two names it would have been not necessarily winner the candidate C (it could also have been candidate B with the same name) right? So maybe there is a reason why between two coincidental names people voted the second one...
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby Doriana » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:37 pm

Are there two more relevant politicians? I.e. the third one on the ballot and the one who shares a name with the second one? If so, does the second one share a name with a more well-known politician, people mistake him for the well-known politician, and vote for candidate #3 because they think he has a higher chance of defeating #2?
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead

Postby WiZ » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:44 pm

AlbatrossLover

Is the other politician an incumbent yes, although not strictly relevant who isn't running for reelection? no And the second candidate shares a name with him, making people mistakenly vote for him? but this is certainly the logic behind the solution

Trebor

I suspect AlbatrossLover may have hit on it, but in case not: is the third person someone who holds a greater office than the one the other two are running for? It's a yope to 'greater office', but this state of being greater is relevant

Earnest

If it so, maybe the name of the third candidate was barred with an X by way of example to show people how to vote? no I mean, had people mistaken only the two names it would have been not necessarily winner the candidate C (it could also have been candidate B with the same name) right? Not sure I understand the question, sorry So maybe there is a reason why between two coincidental names people voted the second one... see above

Disclaimer: I'm quite unwell at the moment, so maybe my brain isn't firing on all cylinders. Hopefully the other answers have shed some more light on the possibilities.

Doriana

Are there two more relevant politicians? I.e. the third one on the ballot and the one who shares a name with the second one? Correct - there are no other relevant parties, and the first is relevant only insofar as they ended up winning If so, does the second one share a name with a more well-known politician, people mistake him for the well-known politician, and vote for candidate #3 because they think he has a higher chance of defeating #2? And there it is!

***** SPOILER *****

They were candidates standing for an electorate in a general election. The first man was narrowly defeated by a third candidate. The second man was a low-ranking member of a minor party who happened to share a name with the party leader. He received a disproportionately high number of votes, leading analysts to believe that people voted for him in the mistaken belief that he was the leader (who was much more accomplished, recognised and popular).

Because the two men's parties had similar politics and shared a voting base, the second man's gain was the first man's loss, and these excess votes were enough to tip the scales in favour of candidate #3.


Congratulations to all of you on the solution, and thank you everyone for playing. This is a true story based on the outcome of the Whangarei electorate in NZ's 2020 general election - but we have to wait for the special votes to be counted to see if:

  • The ACT candidate caused the National candidate to lose his set
  • The ACT candidate almost caused the National candidate to lose his seat, or
  • The Labour candidate would have won anyway, but the ACT candidate gave them a bigger margin than expected.

Right now, the National candidate is ahead by 164 votes, which is more than enough to get erased by the specials, which tend to favour the left.
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Re: [WiZ] I'm not dead [BIT THE BALLOT]

Postby Balin » Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:29 am

Clever. Hope your brain and body return to health soon.
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