[IrishElk] Transitive Property

[irishelk]

J is secretly D.
But D is secretly a combination of J and B.
All three are the same type of thing. But what?

[GalFisk]

Type of: object? Concept? Person? Feeling? Food? Drink? Medication? Substance? Drug? Animal? Mineral? Are both secrets secret for the same reason? Kept secret by the same entity?

[irishelk]

GalFisk

Type of: object? Concept? This is closest. Person? Not exactly, but involving people. Feeling? Food? Drink? Medication? Substance? Drug? Animal? Mineral? No to rest.
Are both secrets secret for the same reason? Noish. Kept secret by the same entity? Hm, good question. I'll say yope.

[GalFisk]

Type of: job? Emotion? Socioeconomic status? Relationship? Group? OTRT? Economy relevant? Modern society? Can these things exist without humans?

[Earnest]

So can we say J = D; D = J+B? Is B secretly J or D? Is B = D-J? If so...B = 0? Does transitive property apply?
Relevant the letters (J, D and B)? Would it work with A,B and C generically? Or we can say J --> D--> J+B? Is D >J? Had J been D not secretly, would it have made any sense to distinguish between J and D? Can D and J be easily confused one for the other?

Are identities relevant? Secret identities? (e.g. Parker is secretly Spider-Man and Spider Man is secretly a combination of Parker and the venom of a spider) Can we say that J and D are the same concept? The same concept stated into two different way? Can wee say that D indirectly implies J (or viceversa)? Has J been substitute by D? Viceversa? Are J and D laws (e.g. J states: "weapons can be used"; D states "people can defend with any means if in troubles"; something similar?)?

secretly = kept secret by someone? By an Institution? By a Nation? By Government? By people in general? By a small group of people? By books? By history books? By J, B or D? By politicians? By religion (e.g. mystery of faith)?

secretly = hidden? Not visible at a first impact? Secret as in "Top secret"?

a combination of J and B. = somewhere between J and B? It has some elements of J and some elements of B (if so an equal number of elements of J and of B?)? a mathematical combination of the two? It can be identified with J or B? It can be classified as J and B?
Are J secretly D and D secretly J and B the same way?

Are J B and D mathematical expressions? Sports? Rules? taxes?
technology relevant? Emoticons? Something like symbols for doing emoticons? they are hidden by the smiles appearing instead of them in chats. So J, D and B are symbol combinations. J is secretly D in that J is ":" and "D"; D it's a combination of J and B in that it is ": = D" (i.e. with the nose). The secret part arises from the fact that in chats they are both the same way to write the same smile (sos it will appear in both cases a smiling face though the symbols are different) --> this one I guess

[irishelk]

GalFisk

Type of: job? Emotion? Socioeconomic status? Relationship? Group? OTRT? Economy relevant? Not to all. Modern society? Only in the vaguest of ways.
Can these things exist without humans? No.


Earnest

So can we say J = D; D = J+B? Hm, the equals sign is tricky...there's a little more going on. Is B secretly J or D? No. Is B = D-J? It's not only this. If so...B = 0? Does transitive property apply? It actually isn't something that can be stated in purely mathematical terms.
Relevant the letters (J, D and B)? They do signify something. Would it work with A,B and C generically? Sure. Or we can say J --> D--> J+B? Not really...depends on what the arrows signify there. Is D >J? Can't really answer. Had J been D not secretly, would it have made any sense to distinguish between J and D? They would still be different things, yes. Can D and J be easily confused one for the other? Noish.

Are identities relevant? I'll say yes. Secret identities? Yes... (e.g. Parker is secretly Spider-Man and Spider Man is secretly a combination of Parker and the venom of a spider) Not in superhero terms. Good thought though.
Can we say that J and D are the same concept? The same concept stated into two different way? They are two of the same type of thing. Can wee say that D indirectly implies J (or viceversa)? Not really.
Has J been substitute by D? Viceversa? Yes, D has been secretly substituted for J.
Are J and D laws (e.g. J states: "weapons can be used"; D states "people can defend with any means if in troubles"; something similar?)? No.

secretly = kept secret by someone? Yes. By an Institution? By a Nation? By Government? By people in general? By a small group of people? This, and to keep things simple I'll say it's a different, but similar group of people in each case. By books? By history books?
By J, B or D? They are involved. By politicians? By religion (e.g. mystery of faith)? No to rest.

secretly = hidden? Not visible at a first impact? This is probably closest. Secret as in "Top secret"? That same usage, but not quite as dire.

a combination of J and B. = somewhere between J and B? It has some elements of J and some elements of B (if so an equal number of elements of J and of B?)? This, and actually more J, but irr. a mathematical combination of the two? It can be identified with J or B? It can be classified as J and B?
Are J secretly D and D secretly J and B the same way? Yes.

Are J B and D mathematical expressions? Sports? Rules? taxes? No.
technology relevant? Vaguely.
Emoticons? Something like symbols for doing emoticons? they are hidden by the smiles appearing instead of them in chats. So J, D and B are symbol combinations. J is secretly D in that J is ":" and "D"; D it's a combination of J and B in that it is ": = D" (i.e. with the nose). The secret part arises from the fact that in chats they are both the same way to write the same smile (sos it will appear in both cases a smiling face though the symbols are different) --> this one I guess Nope.

[Earnest]

Are identities relevant? I'll say yes. Secret identities? Yes... --> people identities? Privacy? Spies? make up relevant? Costumes? Transfiguration? Blood transfusions?
To be sure: the fact that D is a combination of J and B does not mean that D is son/daughter of J and B right? I mean...combination is not a biological combination right? Is it a combination in style? In names? In a relevant characteristic of J and B? physical characteristic? style? writings?

J is secretly D. --> Are J, D and B animals? living creatures?

secretly = hidden? Not visible at a first impact? This is probably closest --> identity cards relevant? Pictures? Physical characteristics? Clothing? Something cancelled? Something substituted/covered with something else? Advertising relevant (e.g. old billboard J covered by new billboard D which is a combination of J and B, B being another stratum of billboards)?

By a small group of people? This, and to keep things simple I'll say it's a different, but similar group of people --> famous people? Rich people? Common people? People belonging to an institution/company/religion?

[irishelk]

Earnest

Are identities relevant? I'll say yes. Secret identities? Yes... --> people identities? The identity of a person is relevant in a certain sense, yes, but I fell like this will get you off-track. Privacy? Spies? make up relevant? Costumes? Transfiguration? Blood transfusions? No to all.
To be sure: the fact that D is a combination of J and B does not mean that D is son/daughter of J and B right? Right. I mean...combination is not a biological combination right? Yes, it is not. Is it a combination in style? In names? In a relevant characteristic of J and B? Yes. physical characteristic? Yope to yesish. style? writings?

J is secretly D. --> Are J, D and B animals? No. living creatures? No, but they involve people.

secretly = hidden? Not visible at a first impact? This is probably closest --> identity cards relevant? Pictures? Physical characteristics? Yope to yesish. Clothing? Something cancelled? Something substituted/covered with something else? Sort of. Advertising relevant (e.g. old billboard J covered by new billboard D which is a combination of J and B, B being another stratum of billboards)? No

By a small group of people? This, and to keep things simple I'll say it's a different, but similar group of people --> famous people? Rich people? Possible, irr. Common people? DOYD. People belonging to an institution/company/religion? They work together.

[GalFisk]

Is a magic trick relevant? A crime? A scam? Spying? Subterfuge? Undercover work? Commerce? If the secrets were revealed, would it cause: uproar? Financial loss? Panic? Death? Amusement?

[Earnest]

They work together. --> as spies? actors? people in a costume? Like they are all actors representing the same character in different scenes? Or maybe a shadow in a movie? Or an intangible entity? Or maybe a puppet (the ones in amusement parks)?

[irishelk]

GalFisk

Is a magic trick relevant? A crime? A scam? Spying? Subterfuge? This is the best word for it. Undercover work? Commerce?
If the secrets were revealed, would it cause: uproar? Some mild upset. Financial loss? Panic? Death? Amusement? and this. Slight FA.


Earnest

They work together. --> as spies? actors? Not all of them, but this is relevant. people in a costume? Like they are all actors representing the same character in different scenes? No, OTRTish. Or maybe a shadow in a movie? Or an intangible entity? The specific thing the letters refer to is intangible. Or maybe a puppet (the ones in amusement parks)? No to rest.

[GalFisk]

Voice acting relevant? Shadows? Music? Singing?

[irishelk]

GalFisk

Voice acting relevant? Yes, very much so. Shadows? No. Music? Singing? Yes and yes!

[GalFisk]

Are they cartoon characters? Computer-animated? Video game? Is a character voiced by different people when speaking versus singing? Are there three voice actors? Three characters? An actor voicing more than one character?

[irishelk]

GalFisk

Are they cartoon characters? Computer-animated? Video game? No to all.
Is a character voiced by different people when speaking versus singing? Yes. Are there three voice actors? Yesish. Three characters? Two characters. An actor voicing more than one character? Yesish

[Hobbsicle]

Is this related to a certain type of media? A specific instance of media? Film/television? Video? Podcast? Audiobook? Stage production? Musical? Album? Song?

Are the three letters three characters? Three "voices"? Three songs?

[irishelk]

Hobbsicle

Is this related to a certain type of media? Yes. A specific instance of media?Yes.
Film/television? Video? Podcast? Audiobook? Stage production? Musical? Yes, a movie musical. Album? Song?

Are the three letters three characters? Three "voices"? Yes! Three songs?

[Hobbsicle]

So the three voices are for two characters?

Consider the following questions asked about each of the three letters:
Is it a speaking voice?
A singing voice?

Is this an animated musical? Or live action?

[irishelk]

Hobbsicle

So the three voices are for two characters? Correct.

Consider the following questions asked about each of the three letters:
Is it a speaking voice? When D is secretly J, yes.
A singing voice? Yes for J, D & B

Is this an animated musical? Or live action? This, and guessing it might help if you're familiar.

[irishelk]

***************RECAP

D, J and be are all people's voices. So the puzzle could be reworded:
J's voice is secretly D's voice. But D's voice is a combination of J's voice and B's voice.

This is taking place in a movie musical. (Guessing which one might help you figure out the exact situation. Googling welcomed.) There are three different voices and two characters. The two secrets are created/kept by two different, but in many ways similar, groups.

[irishelk]

**************SPOILER as I think all the fun has been gotten out of this one.

The plot of Singin in the Rain revolves around the fact that Debbie Reynold’s character is secretly providing the singing voice for Jean Hagan's character, a silent film star whose voice is no good for "talkies."

But in fact, when Debbie Reynold sings in the movie, it is actually a voice actress named Betty Noyes singing her parts--so the same thing happened in real life that happened in the movie! Additionally, at one point in the movie Reynolds is supposedly dubbing over a speaking line of Hagan's, but really the audience hears Hagan's voice speak the line.

So, in the movie's dubbing scenes, Jean's voice (J) is secretly Debbie's voice (D). But actually Debbie's voice (D) is a combination of Betty Noyes' singing voice (B) and Jean's speaking voice (J)!