[JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

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[JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:57 pm

During the American Civil War, a slave made it to Northern lines specifically because Northern troops tried to kill him. How?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Earnest » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:48 am

Ok not an expert of American Civil War but I'll try.

slave = HAM?

slave = war slave? I mean is his condition of slave determined by the fact that he was made prisoner by the enemies or maybe he was already a slave and hence the fact that he had been made prisoner did not change, in fact, his status?

because Northern troops tried to kill him. --> did they chase him maybe leaving food on the way? Was it winter? Did they try to shoot him? Did they want to kill him in a particular way? E.g. eaten by dogs? hanged? poisoned? others? Did they in fact facilitated the intents of th slave?

made it to Northern lines = he managed to escape? He saved his life? He managed not to be killed? He frighted against the Northern army? He frighted with the northern army?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Balin » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:31 pm

Did the Northern troops retreat? Did the slave follow the Northern troops?
Were the troops on land? On sea?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Mimino » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:39 pm

Did the slave escape from some place in the South? and headed for a non-slavery state in the North? did he have help? did he travel alone? did he walk? ride a horse? go by ship? did he disguise as someone else? did he wear a uniform?
DId the Northern forces actively tried to kill that particular man? or was it more along the lines of a misunderstanding? or mistaken identity? Did the Northern troops know that their attempt killing him would help him to escape?
Did they attempt to execute him? or fire at him as an enemy soldier?
Was the slave a spy? did he carry a message for the US Army?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:55 pm

Ok not an expert of American Civil War but I'll try.

slave = HAM? Yes.

slave = war slave? I mean is his condition of slave determined by the fact that he was made prisoner by the enemies or maybe he was already a slave and hence the fact that he had been made prisoner did not change, in fact, his status? No, he was already a slave and not a prisoner.

because Northern troops tried to kill him. --> did they chase him maybe leaving food on the way? No. Was it winter? Irr. Did they try to shoot him? No. Did they want to kill him in a particular way? Yes. E.g. eaten by dogs? hanged? poisoned? others? This. Did they in fact facilitated the intents of th slave? Assume he had no intent to escape before he found himself free.

made it to Northern lines = he managed to escape? This. He saved his life? Yes, actually. He managed not to be killed? More this, though. He frighted against the Northern army? He frighted with the northern army? If you mean "fought," he was not a soldier, nor did he become one afterward.

Did the Northern troops retreat? Did the slave follow the Northern troops? No to both.
Were the troops on land? This. On sea?

Did the slave escape from some place in the South? Yes. and headed for a non-slavery state in the North? No. did he have help? Yes, in a sense. did he travel alone? YMMV. did he walk? ride a horse? go by ship? did he disguise as someone else? did he wear a uniform? None of these.
DId the Northern forces actively tried to kill that particular man? Not him specifically, but yes. or was it more along the lines of a misunderstanding? or mistaken identity? No to both. Did the Northern troops know that their attempt killing him would help him to escape? No.
Did they attempt to execute him? or fire at him as an enemy soldier? No to both.
Was the slave a spy? did he carry a message for the US Army? No to both.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby markobr » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:48 pm

Did the Northern troops want to kill him because of something he did? Knew? Because he was at a certain place? Did they try to kill other people with the same actions (e.g. all those in a certain building)?

Did the Northern troops destroy or damage something in the attempt to kill him? Kill/injure someone else? Build something? Did the troops' actions give him an opportunity to get away from where he was?

Were the Northern troops trying to kill him to gain a military advantage?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:56 am

Did the Northern troops want to kill him because of something he did? This. Knew? Because he was at a certain place? Also this. Ish. Did they try to kill other people with the same actions (e.g. all those in a certain building)? Yes.

Did the Northern troops destroy or damage something in the attempt to kill him? Yes. Kill/injure someone else? Yes. Build something? No, but related. Did the troops' actions give him an opportunity to get away from where he was? In a sense, though "opportunity" is definitely not the right word.

Were the Northern troops trying to kill him to gain a military advantage? Yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby markobr » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:36 am

Did he have to get away in order to save himself? Because something was (about to be?) on fire? Flooded? Collapsing? Poisonous? Lack of oxygen relevant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby GalFisk » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:54 am

Did they know that he was there? Did they relevantly use bullets? Cannonballs? Explosives? did they kill his captors? Break relevant restraints/confinement? Blow a hole in his prison cell?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:24 pm

Did he have to get away in order to save himself? Can't answer, FA. Because something was (about to be?) on fire? Flooded? Collapsing? Poisonous? Lack of oxygen relevant? Interestingly, ALL of these have relevance to the situation, though none are precisely what would have killed him.

Did they know that he was there? Not him, specifically, but yes. Did they relevantly use bullets? Cannonballs? Explosives? This. did they kill his captors? No. Break relevant restraints/confinement? For sufficiently vague value of "confinement," yes. Blow a hole in his prison cell? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby GalFisk » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:07 pm

Did they relevantly: explode part of a building? An entire building? Create a crater? In which he could hide from gunfire? Create some other cover? Troop movements relevant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:25 pm

Did they relevantly: explode part of a building? An entire building? Create a crater? This. In which he could hide from gunfire? Create some other cover? Troop movements relevant? No to all else.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby trebor » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:53 pm

Did they try to kill other people with the same actions (e.g. all those in a certain building)? Yes.

Does the "yes" here also apply to the example of them being in a building? Were they outside? (Thinking that's more likely, as the weapon created a crater.) Were they in a structure that they built themselves?

Were all the people the slave was with also slaves? Were they Confederate soldiers? Were they his owners? Had the slave been on the move prior to the Union troops trying to kill him?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:45 am

Does the "yes" here also apply to the example of them being in a building? No. Were they outside? Yope. (Thinking that's more likely, as the weapon created a crater. That is relevant.) Were they in a structure that they built themselves? Yes.

Were all the people the slave was with also slaves? Assume all but one. Were they Confederate soldiers? Assume one. Were they his owners? No. Had the slave been on the move prior to the Union troops trying to kill him? Yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Mimino » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:25 am

Did this one slave make it to the Northern lines in the sense that the Northern lines came to him?
Was he the only who survived?
Were the slaves hiding? Was the Confederate soldier hiding too? together with the slaves?
Did the Union troops know of the Confederate soldier? was their action primarily aimed at him?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:13 am

Did this one slave make it to the Northern lines in the sense that the Northern lines came to him? No.
Was he the only who survived? Yes.
Were the slaves hiding? Was the Confederate soldier hiding too? together with the slaves? They were all concealed, though I would not describe them as hiding.
Did the Union troops know of the Confederate soldier? Irr. was their action primarily aimed at him? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Mimino » Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:10 pm

Attempt of a recap:
A confederate soldier and a group of slaves were concealed? in some building? in some sort of container? in a cave? below the surface?
The union troops purposely caused an explosion near this place? which resulted in a crater?
This explosion killed all people but one slave?
This slave got free? and headed towards the Northern lines? which he finally reached?

Was the main purpose of the explosion: to blow up something? to clear the battle field? to create a big hole? to stop the enemy's progress?
Did the confederate soldier and the slaves get into this place voluntarily? were they forced to go there? trapped? got in by mistake? would they have been able to leave this place on their own (if there had not been the explosion)? were they locked in? captives? prisoners?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:46 pm

Attempt of a recap:
A confederate soldier and a group of slaves were concealed? Yes. in some building? in some sort of container? in a cave? below the surface? This.
The union troops purposely caused an explosion near this place? which resulted in a crater? Yes to both.
This explosion killed all people but one slave? Yes.
This slave got free? and headed towards the Northern lines? which he finally reached? For sufficiently vague values of all three.

Was the main purpose of the explosion: to blow up something? to clear the battle field? to create a big hole? to stop the enemy's progress? This.
Did the confederate soldier and the slaves get into this place voluntarily? were they forced to go there? The slaves were. trapped? By the explosion, perhaps. got in by mistake? would they have been able to leave this place on their own (if there had not been the explosion)? Yes. were they locked in? captives? prisoners? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby trebor » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:56 pm

Had they (the slaves and the Confederate) dug a trench? A covered tunnel? Anything about the surroundings relevant? Near a river? In a forest? Swamp? Is it relevant what state they were in? Is it relevant what state the slave or any of his party had come from?

Would it be correct to assume that the slave wanted to escape slavery?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:32 am

Had they (the slaves and the Confederate) dug a trench? A covered tunnel? This. Anything about the surroundings relevant? Near a river? In a forest? Swamp? Is it relevant what state they were in? Is it relevant what state the slave or any of his party had come from? This occurred at Vicksburg, Mississippi, near the Mississippi River. It is relevant that the terrain was good for digging.

Would it be correct to assume that the slave wanted to escape slavery? His desire or lack of same is irrelevant.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Acridian9 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:10 pm

Just to clarify:
Did the Confederate army dig the tunnel? O was it the Union army?
Did the Confederate army bow up the tunnel? O was it the Union army?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:35 am

Just to clarify:
Did the Confederate army dig the tunnel? O was it the Union army?
Did the Confederate army bow up the tunnel? O was it the Union army?

Good question!

For the specific tunnel in which the slave was working (his name was Abraham, incidentally), the Confederates dug it and the Union blew it up.

However, both sides were digging tunnels and trying to blow them up. This is mildly relevant to the actual puzzle.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Mimino » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:38 am

Did the Union army dig under the confederate tunnel? in order to blow it up from beneath?
Did the Union while digging realize that they're crossing a confederate tunnel? and decided to blow it up?
Was the slave in the crater after the explosion? Did the confederates fire at him? at anything moving in the crater? so the slave basically ran away from the fire? and ended up behind the Union lines?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Acridian9 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:10 pm

Ah, ok... two tunnels!
So: slaves were at work in the Confederate tunnel when
- the Union blew up *their* (Union) tunnel and this caused the Confederate tunnel to blow up too?
- or: the Union entered the Confederate tunnel and blew up *their* (Confederate) tunnel (thus somehow "saving" Union tunnel)?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:29 pm

Did the Union army dig under the confederate tunnel? in order to blow it up from beneath? Assume yes to both.
Did the Union while digging realize that they're crossing a confederate tunnel? and decided to blow it up? Irr, assume yes.
Was the slave in the crater after the explosion? Did the confederates fire at him? at anything moving in the crater? so the slave basically ran away from the fire? No to all. and ended up behind the Union lines? But yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:36 pm

Ah, ok... two tunnels! Correct.
So: slaves were at work in the Confederate tunnel when
- the Union blew up *their* (Union) tunnel and this caused the Confederate tunnel to blow up too? This.
- or: the Union entered the Confederate tunnel and blew up *their* (Confederate) tunnel (thus somehow "saving" Union tunnel)? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Mimino » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:55 pm

Did the slave use the tunnel dug by the union troops to escape?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:01 pm

Did the slave use the tunnel dug by the union troops to escape? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Acridian9 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:28 am

In a previous post, you said the slave didn't walk nor ride a horse.
Did he run? Use a vehicle? Was he carried by something/someone?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:32 am

In a previous post, you said the slave didn't walk nor ride a horse.
Did he run? Use a vehicle? Was he carried by something/someone? No to all.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby Acridian9 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:31 am

To reach the Northern lines, did he move on the ground? under the ground? above the ground?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:11 am

To reach the Northern lines, did he move on the ground? under the ground? above the ground? This.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby trebor » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:14 pm

Was he already quite close to the Union line? Was he propelled over it, perhaps by the force of the explosion?

Were the Union forces further underground than he was, prior to the blast? Was his tunnel directly over theirs?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:55 pm

Was he already quite close to the Union line? A couple hundred yards, maybe. Was he propelled over it, perhaps by the force of the explosion? YES.

Were the Union forces further underground than he was, prior to the blast? Was his tunnel directly over theirs? Assume yes to both.



SPOILER:


During the siege of Vicksburg, Mississippi, Union engineers dug a mine under Confederate lines, planning to detonate it and literally blow a hole through which their forces could move to take the city.

Naturally, the Confederates countermined. They used slaves as labor to dig tunnels, hoping to fill them with explosives and blow up the Union mine before it could be finished.

When the Yankees blew the mine, seven slaves and one overseer were in a nearby Confederate tunnel. All were killed except Abraham, who was blown into the air and fell behind Union lines. On his head. Abraham was stunned and bruised, but otherwise unhurt. He became a celebrity for a few weeks, took a job as General McPherson's cook, and disappeared from the historical record.

https://emergingcivilwar.com/2019/02/06 ... burg-mine/
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Saved by Fate (FREED MAN)

Postby WiZ » Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:36 pm

Well, blow me away!
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