[RedWine] Open the door

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[RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:37 am

Ryan, a middle aged successful businessman, battered severely several people and rushed through the door. Behind the door, Ryan met a person who was responsible for the safety of the battered people. That person was satisfied with Ryan's behaviour and paid him $30.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:01 am

Was this a business deal to batter them? Was he a kind of hitman? Did he know the people he battered? Was he an actor and this was a scene in a film? Were the people expecting to be battered? Were they stunt actors? Was this a form of training for medics?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:16 am

Lynne:

Was this a business deal to batter them? No. Was he a kind of hitman? No. Did he know the people he battered? No. Was he an actor and this was a scene in a film? No. Were the people expecting to be battered? They knew they risked being battered. Were they stunt actors? No. Was this a form of training for medics? Training is OTRT, but not for medics.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:04 am

Did Ryan rush through the door because he feared what the people he'd battered might do? Or he just wanted his payment?
Who was being trained? Ryan or the battered people? Was their gender relevant?
Did Ryan do this regularly?
Was the reaction of the battered people relevant?
Were there any onlookers who were relevant?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:28 pm

Lynne:

Did Ryan rush through the door because he feared what the people he'd battered might do? Or he just wanted his payment? Both, but he thought rather about payment.
Who was being trained? Ryan or the battered people? Neither Ryan, nor the battered people. Was their gender relevant? No.
Did Ryan do this regularly? It was done only once.
Was the reaction of the battered people relevant? Noish
Were there any onlookers who were relevant? There are relevant people monitoring the situation, but "onlookers" may not be the best description.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:03 pm

Was Ryan being tested as to how far he would obey orders even if they were brutal? Would he ever receive payment from the same person again? Was this the reverse of a workplace bonding exercise?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:11 pm

Lynne:

Was Ryan being tested as to how far he would obey orders even if they were brutal? No. Would he ever receive payment from the same person again? Most probably not. Was this the reverse of a workplace bonding exercise? No.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:31 pm

Did Ryan know the man who paid him before that day? Did he approach him or the other way round?
Would it help to find the location of where this happened? Was it in an old factory?
Were the battered people randomly selected for this 'exercise'? Did they know either Ryan or the paymaster?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Balin » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:55 pm

Does "battered" = "beaten up"? "Coated with batter"?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:27 am

Lynne:

Did Ryan know the man who paid him before that day? Possibly they contacted some time earlier, but he knew him only on that one occassion. Did he approach him or the other way round? The payer contacted Ryan.
Would it help to find the location of where this happened? Yes. Was it in an old factory? No.
Were the battered people randomly selected for this 'exercise'? Yesish. Did they know either Ryan or the paymaster? They were contacted the same way Ryan was. They did not know Ryan.

Balin:

Does "battered" = "beaten up"? Yes, though Ryan did not just come and hit those people. "Coated with batter"? No.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:18 am

Did the payer put out an advertisement for Ryan's services or did the payer know that Ryan would be capable of battering them successfully?
Did Ryan have to batter them till they were mildly injured, severely injured or very close to death?
Will there be any repurcussions from the battered people?
Did those people know each other? Have anything in common? Were they advertised for? Or were they under the power of the payer, somehow? Were they prisoners? Prisoners of war?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:37 pm

Lynne:

Did the payer put out an advertisement for Ryan's services Possibly or did the payer know that Ryan would be capable of battering them successfully? The payer did not look for people being able to batter other people.
Did Ryan have to batter them till they were mildly injured, severely injured or very close to death? Ryan did not have to batter them at all.
Will there be any repurcussions from the battered people? Probably not.
Did those people know each other? Generally no, some may know one or two other people. Have anything in common? Yesish, explore. Were they advertised for? Possibly. Or were they under the power of the payer, somehow? No. Were they prisoners? No. Prisoners of war? No.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:00 pm

Was the payer surprised that Ryan battered the people? Did the payer question Ryan's motives? Did it fit into the payer's plans or did he change his plans? Did Ryan go expecting to batter the people? Or did he get mad at them? Were the people going to thwart any other plans of his?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:04 am

Lynne:

Was the payer surprised that Ryan battered the people? No, he expected that. Did the payer question Ryan's motives? Not at all. Did it fit into the payer's plans or did he change his plans? It supported payer's thesis and fit into his plans. Did Ryan go expecting to batter the people? No. Or did he get mad at them? No. Were the people going to thwart any other plans of his? Noish.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:51 am

Could Ryan have done something other than battering the people and still get paid? If he'd done nothing at all would the payer have been satisfied?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:39 am

Lynne:

Could Ryan have done something other than battering the people and still get paid? Yes. His payment was not for having battered people, but for something else, what he accomplished that way. If he'd done nothing at all would the payer have been satisfied? No.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:14 am

So he could have achieved the same aim in a different way? Was this a psychological test?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:44 pm

Lynne:

So he could have achieved the same aim in a different way? Yes. Was this a psychological test? No, but OTRT.

old_wombat:

If we were physically present there, would we be able to figure out what was going on? Yes. If we were present there, the payer would told us what was going on.
Was he an actor, and this was part of making a moofie (movie)? No.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:21 pm

old_wombat:

Was this some sort of performance test for Ryan? No.
Say, to being a bouncer or a hitman? No.
Were the people being battered trying to get through the door to the payer? Yes, excellent question!
Did the payer owe money to the battered people? No, but...
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:46 pm

Was this a race to get through the door? Were the people in danger? Trying to get out of a dangerous situation? Was Ryan ethical in what he did? Was it a 'survival of the fittest'? Did Ryan have anything in common with the people that he battered?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:02 pm

Lynne:

Was this a race to get through the door? Yes. Were the people in danger? No, but very much OTRT. Trying to get out of a dangerous situation? No. Was Ryan ethical in what he did? It depends on point of view, I'll say yes. Was it a 'survival of the fittest'? No. Did Ryan have anything in common with the people that he battered? Only that they were all chosen by the payer, therefore meeting payer's criteria.

old_wombat:


Hmmm ... immediately comes to mind - was the payer a rock star or something similar (ie, "popular" and trying to escape fans). No, not at all.
Alternatively ... was Ryan a stand-in for the payer? No.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby irishelk » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:02 pm

You say the payer was responsible for the battered peoples' safety--was s/he trying to improve their safety? Trying to anticipate a way to keep them safe in a given situation? Was s/he responsible only for these specific people? For people in their situation? People in their profession? Was s/he responsible for Ryan's safety?

Is everyone in the situation adult? Any genders relevant?

So there are people other than the payer observing the situation, correct? Are they being trained in some way? Educated? Under different circumstances, might they be expected to stop behavior like Ryan's? Or emulate it?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:18 am

old_wombat:

How maddening. Trying to think of some lateral questions.
Was this some sort of survival or simulation exercise? It was a simulation, yes.
These people who were "battered", were they genuinely injured? Yes.
Did Ryan start off with the people who were battered? Yes.
Is it relevant what he battered them with? He did not have any relevant equipment.
You say that the people were not in danger, but did they themselves realize that? Yes, everybody knew it was a simulation.
Did anyone else behave similarly to Ryan to these people? Yes.
Were the battered people paid? Not at all. How much (compared to Ryan's $30)
Did those who were battered get paid more than those who didn't? Being battered was irrelevant to the payment. Something else was.
Does the action take place in "ordinary" (I guess Americans would say "regular") rooms? No.
Is it an ordinary door? No.
Did any of the other people get through the door? Eventually they all did.
Did something special happen to them if they did? Only to some of them - the payment.
Did something happen to those who didn't? No.

irishelk:

You say the payer was responsible for the battered peoples' safety--was s/he trying to improve their safety? Yes, but not of those particular people, but in a more general way.Trying to anticipate a way to keep them safe in a given situation? Yes, that's adequate description.Was s/he responsible only for these specific people? No. For people in their situation? Yes.People in their profession? No, they do not need to share a common profession.Was s/he responsible for Ryan's safety? Yes.

Is everyone in the situation adult? Yes.Any genders relevant? No.

So there are people other than the payer observing the situation, correct? No. There may be other people, but they're probably part of the payer's team. Are they being trained in some way? No. Educated? Payer (and also other people of his team, if there were any) are somehow learning something, yes. Under different circumstances, might they be expected to stop behavior like Ryan's? Yesish. Maybe rather deal with the situation in the way that would make such behavior unnecessary. Or emulate it? No.

Some very good questions in this round :-)
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:39 pm

Is this done on an aeroplane? Somewhere where there may be mass panic in a small space if there is a crisis situation?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:53 pm

Lynne:

Is this done on an aeroplane? Yes, well done! Somewhere where there may be mass panic in a small space if there is a crisis situation? So yes.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:48 pm

Are they airline staff training to deal with aggressive behaviour? Is there more to discover?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby irishelk » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:07 pm

Are they trying to determine the most efficient way of evacuating a plane? Anything to do with which seats are more advantageous?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:17 am

Lynne:


Are they airline staff training to deal with aggressive behaviour? They - the payer and his team - are not strictly speaking staff but are responsible for aircraft safety. Is there more to discover? Yes, why they pay Ryan.

irishelk:

Are they trying to determine the most efficient way of evacuating a plane? Yesish. Anything to do with which seats are more advantageous? No.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby old_wombat » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:50 am

So we are examining and simulating a scenario in regard to safely evacuating an aircraft in an emergency. We are now working on the case where an individual - perhaps in panic, perhaps through selfishness, (actually, the reason is irrelevant) - decides to bash/batter his way to the head of the queue. Ultimately, we are trying to determine what effect this will have on the orderly evacuation of the rest of the passengers.

As to why we pay Ryan to do this, perhaps it is because we cannot get a freebie volunteer to do this quite heartless task. Or because we have used him in the past , and continue to do so because he behaves very realistically (some people do not perform well at simulated tasks).

The payer could be a number of things. An airline, a government agency (FAA, NTSB), an aircraft manufacturer, a media organisation looking for a story, even a law firm building up evidence in a massive lawsuit ...
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:17 am

This reminds me so much of a the Manchester aircraft accident where people were literally treading on other people to get out of the plane. Panic does terrible things to people. i've often wondered how the survivors have lived with themselves Survivor's guilt will really play a part. Did Ryan have PTSD from a previous occasion?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:11 pm

old_wombat:

So we are examining and simulating a scenario in regard to safely evacuating an aircraft in an emergency. Yes. We are now working on the case where an individual - perhaps in panic, perhaps through selfishness, (actually, the reason is irrelevant) - decides to bash/batter his way to the head of the queue. Correct. Ultimately, we are trying to determine what effect this will have on the orderly evacuation of the rest of the passengers. That's incorrect, at least not exact.

As to why we pay Ryan to do this, perhaps it is because we cannot get a freebie volunteer to do this quite heartless task. No. Or because we have used him in the past , and continue to do so because he behaves very realistically No...(some people do not perform well at simulated tasks). But this is indeed an important factor.

The payer could be a number of things. Sure. An airline, a government agency (FAA, NTSB), an aircraft manufacturer, a media organisation looking for a story, even a law firm building up evidence in a massive lawsuit ... In real scenario they were scientists responsible for aircraft safety.

Lynne:
This reminds me so much of a the Manchester aircraft accident where people were literally treading on other people to get out of the plane. Panic does terrible things to people. i've often wondered how the survivors have lived with themselves Survivor's guilt will really play a part.
In real scenario, the simulation was done after an aircraft accident with surprisingly high number of injured people.
Did Ryan have PTSD from a previous occasion? No, Ryan did not take part in any previous aircraft accident.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby old_wombat » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:16 am

Having trouble seeing the bigger picture here, coz it appeared to me that this one was solved. Are there still questions left to answer? What would they be?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby irishelk » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:39 pm

Was Ryan selected to take part in the test differently than the battered people? Or was he just the one who made it to the door first, and therefore got paid? Perhaps the participants didn't know that the test was about airline safety at all, but only that the first one through the door got money?

In other words, were all of them attempting to batter, and Ryan was just the most successful?

Or perhaps the researchers introduced another factor that made it more likely for them to turn violent? Or more likely for just Ryan to be violent?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:43 pm

old_wombat:

Having trouble seeing the bigger picture here, coz it appeared to me that this one was solved. Are there still questions left to answer? What would they be? We still don't know why Ryan was paid. Only few participants of the experiment were paid.

irishelk:

Was Ryan selected to take part in the test differently than the battered people? No. Or was he just the one who made it to the door first, and therefore got paid? Yes - only few people who went through the door first got the money. Why? Perhaps the participants didn't know that the test was about airline safety at all, but only that the first one through the door got money? AFAIK, participants knew the purpose of the test. But they were also told that first few through the door get money.

In other words, were all of them attempting to batter, and Ryan was just the most successful? Yes indeed.

Or perhaps the researchers introduced another factor that made it more likely for them to turn violent? No, money was enough. Or more likely for just Ryan to be violent? No, Ryan was participating on equal terms with everybody else.

I think there's enough information now to put them together.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Lynne » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:37 pm

Was it set up like a competition? Did anybody else get paid or were they too battered? Was he the only one to get through the door?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby Konnie » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:36 pm

So they probably wanted more authentic behavior, but normal people in an airline safety test won't batter strangers, so money was just an incentive to get more frantic and violent behavior?
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby RedWine » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:35 am

Lynne:

Was it set up like a competition? Sort of, see below. Did anybody else get paid or were they too battered? Yes, several people got paid. Was he the only one to get through the door? No.

Konnie:

So they probably wanted more authentic behavior, but normal people in an airline safety test won't batter strangers, so money was just an incentive to get more frantic and violent behavior? Yes, exactly. Well done, Konnie!


*******************SPOILER**********************
After one aircraft accident with particularly large number of injured victims, some experts wanted to examine why there were so many victims and how to avoid so many victims in future. During the safety tests, people were behaving calmly and following staff's safety instructions. In order to get them behave more authentically, experts told them that first several people who get out of the plane will be paid $30. That was enough to prompt violent behavior and the number of people injured matched the number from the real accident.


Thanks for playing.
This is my last puzzle for now, as on Friday I'm going on a camp with my scouts and guides. I don't want my puzzles to keep dying when I'll be unable to answer the questions. However, I have some puzzle ideas written down and I'll try them at the end of July when I'll be back.
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Re: [RedWine] Open the door

Postby irishelk » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:11 pm

Nice puzzle, and have fun on your trip!
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