[WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

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[WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:51 pm

A man works on the 10th floor of an office building. He has a meeting with a manager at a cafe on the ground floor. The lift is in perfect working order, so why does he walk down 10 flights of stairs to go to the meeting?

True story, which happened to me. Apologies to my Facebook friends, who will know the answer, but I think this is too good not to post.
Last edited by WiZ on Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Doriana » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:29 pm

Because he has a fear of elevators? (I walked up 10 flights of stairs to the doctor's office as a child because I was scared I would get stuck in the elevator)

Is the man's job relevant? Is it relevant why he is meeting the manager at a café (as opposed to an office or a meeting room)? Does he stop anywhere on his way down?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:40 pm

Because he has a fear of elevators? (I walked up 10 flights of stairs to the doctor's office as a child because I was scared I would get stuck in the elevator)

No, I don't have a fear of elevators. But I think the Finnish do:

Image

Is the man's job relevant? no Is it relevant why he is meeting the manager at a café (as opposed to an office or a meeting room)? no Does he stop anywhere on his way down? no

Feel free to refer to the protagonist in the second person; it is I, after all.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby gregoryuconn » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:57 pm

Did you mistakenly believe the elevator was out of order? Is there more than one elevator you could have used? And perhaps one of them was broken and you misunderstood the sign? That never happened to me, but it did happen to someone delivering me a pizza and he walked up eight flights of steps because he misunderstood the sign.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby trebor » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:16 pm

Was the lift still somehow inaccessible to you? To the manager? Was there a miscommunication between you and them?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:49 pm

GregoryUConn

Did you mistakenly believe the elevator was out of order? no Is there more than one elevator you could have used? yes And perhaps one of them was broken and you misunderstood the sign? no That never happened to me, but it did happen to someone delivering me a pizza and he walked up eight flights of steps because he misunderstood the sign. I hope it was still warm.

Trebor

Was the lift still somehow inaccessible to you? no To the manager? no Was there a miscommunication between you and them? no
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Doriana » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:38 pm

Were you relevantly late for the meeting? early?

Relevant what the meeting was about?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:16 pm

Were you relevantly late for the meeting? early? no to both

Relevant what the meeting was about? no
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby android18 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:58 pm

Do you do this in every situation? Do you want the exercise? Did you finish what you were doing on the 10th floor early so wanted to kill time? Was the lift actually slower than walking down the stairs?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby hominid » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:45 am

Did the elevator take you to a significantly different part of the ground floor than the stairs? Did the manager have an aversion to elevators?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:54 am

Android

Do you do this in every situation? no Do you want the exercise? no Did you finish what you were doing on the 10th floor early so wanted to kill time? no Was the lift actually slower than walking down the stairs? no

Hominid

Did the elevator take you to a significantly different part of the ground floor than the stairs? no Did the manager have an aversion to elevators? no
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby GalFisk » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:40 am

Did you relevantly want to: avoid the elevator? Use the stairs specifically? Did you originally intend to use the elevator, but changed your mind? Was using the stairs more convenient? Fun? Did the manager know you used the stairs? Did he care? Did using the stairs relevantly change your time of arrival? Direction? Manner of arrival? Did using the stairs take longer? Physical exercise relevant? WAG: did you notice that your shoelace was untied, and wanted to support your foot on a stair step in order to tie it? But then didn't want to return from the stairwell to the elevator?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Earnest » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:41 am

So sorry for jumping in but I am really curious...so were you alone in walking the stairs? Did you need to wait some time? Sport relevant? Did you need to look tired? Procrastinate? Would it have worked have you walked 7 floors by stairs and 3 through the elevator? (Or any other combination) Did you want to impress someone? Was there something wtong at all with the elevator? Did you want to meet someone? To see if someone was present? Relevant what was there in other floors? Did you rush in order to go to the ground floor? Have you seen someone relevant go out of the elevator? Were your first intention to take the elevator? Was there something relevant you wanted to see? Relevant the position of the stairs with respect to the elevator? Did you need to walk? Clothing relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby hominid » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:31 am

Does the manager also work in the building? Relevant what floor? Did the manager take the elevator? The stairs? Were you worried about seeing your manager prior to the meeting?

"Tenth floor": does the ground floor count as the first floor? Or floor zero? (I would guess that the latter is standard where you're from but I could be wrong.) Would the puzzle work if you worked on the eleventh floor? Twentieth? Fifth? Fourth? Third? Second?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:37 pm

GalFisk

Did you relevantly want to: avoid the elevator? yes Use the stairs specifically? no Did you originally intend to use the elevator, but changed your mind? yes, good question Was using the stairs more convenient? no Fun? no Did the manager know you used the stairs? yes Did he care? yes Did using the stairs relevantly change your time of arrival? no Direction? no Manner of arrival? no Did using the stairs take longer? yes, slightly Physical exercise relevant? no WAG: did you notice that your shoelace was untied, and wanted to support your foot on a stair step in order to tie it? But then didn't want to return from the stairwell to the elevator? interesting guess, but incorrect

Earnest

So sorry for jumping in but I am really curious... No need to apologise - it's what this puzzle is here for!

so were you alone in walking the stairs? yes Did you need to wait some time? no Sport relevant? no Did you need to look tired? no Procrastinate? no (he says while posting on the LTPF at his work desk) Would it have worked have you walked 7 floors by stairs and 3 through the elevator? (Or any other combination) Most likely yes if it were a different elevator, but probably not if it were the same one Did you want to impress someone? no Was there something wtong at all with the elevator? no Did you want to meet someone? no To see if someone was present? no Relevant what was there in other floors? no Did you rush in order to go to the ground floor? I walked quickly down the stairs, yes Have you seen someone relevant go out of the elevator? no Were your first intention to take the elevator? yes Was there something relevant you wanted to see? no Relevant the position of the stairs with respect to the elevator? no Did you need to walk? no Clothing relevant? no

Hominid

Does the manager also work in the building? no, in fact they usually work on another island - but this is irrelevant Relevant what floor? no Did the manager take the elevator? yes The stairs? no Were you worried about seeing your manager prior to the meeting? no

"Tenth floor": does the ground floor count as the first floor? no Or floor zero? yes (I would guess that the latter is standard where you're from but I could be wrong.) Correct; as with many things, we defer to mother England on this one Would the puzzle work if you worked on the eleventh floor? Twentieth? Fifth? Fourth? Third? Second? Yes to all, although the likelihood diminishes slightly the lower we go.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Enjay » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:57 pm

Was there someone relevant in the lift? Something relevant? Would riding in the lift have been unpleasant for you? Taken longer? Prevented you doing something else you wanted to do? Not been physically possible?

Would you have done the same if you had been travelling down for any other reason? If you had been travelling to a different floor below yours? To a floor above yours?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:03 pm

Was there someone relevant in the lift? yes Something relevant? no Would riding in the lift have been unpleasant for you? no Taken longer? no Prevented you doing something else you wanted to do? no Not been physically possible? no

Would you have done the same if you had been travelling down for any other reason? most probably not If you had been travelling to a different floor below yours? To a floor above yours? yes to both, provided the reason and relevant parties were the same
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Enjay » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:39 pm

Did you want to avoid the person in the lift? Wanted them to get downstairs quicker than you? Was the person in the lift going to the ground floor too? Relevant? Was there one relevant person in the lift? Two? More? Was the manager in the lift? Did you know the person in the lift?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:56 pm

Did you want to avoid the person in the lift? noish Wanted them to get downstairs quicker than you? no Was the person in the lift going to the ground floor too? yes Relevant? yes Was there one relevant person in the lift? yes Two? More? no to these Was the manager in the lift? yes Did you know the person in the lift? yes
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby hominid » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:11 pm

So was the manager the relevant person who was in the list?

Did the manager get on the lift on a floor below the ground floor? Did he get on the lift on the tenth floor? On a floor above the tenth? Between the tenth and ground floors? Did the manager have other business in the building before your meeting? After your meeting?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Enjay » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:34 pm

Did you for some reason not want to be in the lift with the manager prior to your meeting with them? Would you happily have got in the lift with them after the meeting? Did you think they wouldn't have wanted to be in the lift with you?

Had you previously been bumping into them a lot and didn't want them to think you were following them? Were you planning some kind of surprise?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:43 pm

So was the manager the relevant person who was in the list? She was

Did the manager get on the lift on a floor below the ground floor? no Did she get on the lift on the tenth floor? yes On a floor above the tenth? no Between the tenth and ground floors? no Did the manager have other business in the building before your meeting? After your meeting? irrel to both
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:45 pm

Did you for some reason not want to be in the lift with the manager prior to your meeting with them? yes, explore Would you happily have got in the lift with them after the meeting? yes Did you think they wouldn't have wanted to be in the lift with you? no

Had you previously been bumping into them a lot and didn't want them to think you were following them? Heh, no Were you planning some kind of surprise? 'no' is less misleading
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Balin » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:19 pm

Was your manager expecting to meet with you? Were you expecting to meet with your manager?
Did you not want to see the manager before the meeting? Did you not want the manager to see you before the meeting?

I never did see this FB status, for the record...
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:28 pm

Was your manager expecting to meet with you? yes Were you expecting to meet with your manager? yes
Did you not want to see the manager before the meeting? all other things being equal, no (i.e. I wasn't trying to avoid them) Did you not want the manager to see you before the meeting? see previous

I never did see this FB status, for the record... I should hope not, if you're taking part in the puzzle :)
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Balin » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:49 am

Did you first see your manager when you were about to get into the elevator? When she was? Before you or she even approached the elevator?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:16 am

Did you first see your manager when you were about to get into the elevator? Yes, good q When she was? no Before you or she even approached the elevator? no
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby hominid » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:30 am

Sorry for getting the gender wrong; I had somehow thought you previously used male pronouns.

So you saw her in the elevator, and then decided to take the stairs? Was the elevator crowded? Was anyone in it besides her?

Is sticking one's hand in the elevator door to prevent it from closing relevant? Did she relevantly do this? Did you?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:47 am

Sorry for getting the gender wrong; I had somehow thought you previously used male pronouns. I did answer 'yes' to a question that used 'he'... then it got to the point where I had to give the answer '(s)he was', at which point I decided I couldn't be bothered continually converting my manager into a man for the purposes of this puzzle... her gender does not factor into the solution, at any rate.

So you saw her in the elevator, and then decided to take the stairs? yes, although there is more to it Was the elevator crowded? no Was anyone in it besides her? irrelevant

Is sticking one's hand in the elevator door to prevent it from closing relevant? no Did she relevantly do this? Did you? n/a to both
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Earnest » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:48 am

(he says while posting on the LTPF at his work desk) --> ahahahahah he replied while in front of the PC

So...you saw her but she did not see you at the tenth floor right? Relevant her clothing? That it happened around Christmas time? (E.g. she received a "personal gift")
Did you need her to see you at the ground floor directly? Btw...relevant the reason why, if you and her were at the 10th floor, needed to meet at the ground floor? Were you supposed to be already at the ground floor? Did you remember the appointment? Was the manager talking at the phone while taking the elevator? Were you afraid she would have talked with you about something? Did you know her well? When you saw her, have you seen her face? (Strange question I must admit...if the answer is NO! I'll explain xD) can we assume nobody is late?

Did you want to stay in a close space with her? Or just to see her before the meeting? Relevant the reason of the meeting? If so would that be beneficial for her? For you? For both? Relevant the time of the meeting?
Was the meeting related to work? Was she with someone else before takong the elevator? Was she doing something relevant? Did you infer that she preferred to stay alone in the elevator?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:27 pm

So...you saw her but she did not see you at the tenth floor right? incorrect; we both saw each other on 10F Relevant her clothing? no That it happened around Christmas time? (E.g. she received a "personal gift") no
Did you need her to see you at the ground floor directly? That's where our meeting was,but we could equally have met there or met on 10F and gone down together Btw...relevant the reason why, if you and her were at the 10th floor, needed to meet at the ground floor? The very short answer is 'That's where the cafe was' Were you supposed to be already at the ground floor? no Did you remember the appointment? yes Was the manager talking at the phone while taking the elevator? no Were you afraid she would have talked with you about something? no Did you know her well? Yes, we had an established working relationship When you saw her, have you seen her face? yes (Strange question I must admit...if the answer is NO! I'll explain xD) can we assume nobody is late? Nobody is late

Did you want to stay in a close space with her? This was not a consideration Or just to see her before the meeting? irrel Relevant the reason of the meeting? No If so would that be beneficial for her? For you? For both? n/a to all Relevant the time of the meeting? no
Was the meeting related to work? yes Was she with someone else before takong the elevator? irrel Was she doing something relevant? no Did you infer that she preferred to stay alone in the elevator? no
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby gregoryuconn » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:02 pm

Would this work if you were meeting with someone other than your manager? If you were meeting her in the cafe for lunch and not a business meeting? If you were meeting her in a conference room on the ground floor? What about one on the third floor? Relevant why you were even having a business meeting in the cafe and not in a conference room or her office or something?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:38 pm

Would this work if you were meeting with someone other than your manager? Yope If you were meeting her in the cafe for lunch and not a business meeting? Absolutely all other things being equal, yesish If you were meeting her in a conference room on the ground floor? no! What about one on the third floor? A conference room? No

Relevant why you were even having a business meeting in the cafe and not in a conference room or her office or something?
It's mostly a cultural thing - Wellingtonians will conduct business in cafes in much the same way Finns will conduct it in Saunas - the more relaxed and informal atmosphere can serve as an equaliser and a conduit to people of unequal status interacting without certain power structures. And we get to keep our clothes on.

Also, a lot of us are hopelessly addicted to coffee.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby hominid » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:45 pm

Is the buying of food or drinks relevant? Did you want to avoid entering the cafe with her? Standing in line with her?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:43 pm

Is the buying of food or drinks relevant? Yes! Did you want to avoid entering the cafe with her? Standing in line with her? no to both
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby GalFisk » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:51 pm

Are others attending the meeting? Did you tell the manager that you decided to take the stairs instead? Did she understand why you did? If you had planned to take the stairs and seen your manager taking them too, would you have switched to the elevator?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:09 pm

Are others attending the meeting? no Did you tell the manager that you decided to take the stairs instead? no Did she understand why you did? yes If you had planned to take the stairs and seen your manager taking them too, would you have switched to the elevator? I don't believe this scenario could have occurred under those circumstances.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby trebor » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:11 am

Does the first person to arrive generally pay for the drinks? And you had bought them last time, hadn’t the money, etc.?

Is it relevant what drinks or food items were going to be ordered?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:21 am

Does the first person to arrive generally pay for the drinks? So very ORT, explore And you had bought them last time, hadn’t the money, etc.? no - there was no real reason that I couldn't buy coffee (other than knowing what Pay Scale my boss is on), but something clever is afooteth

Is it relevant what drinks or food items were going to be ordered? no (Coffee)
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby hominid » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:19 am

If two people arrive at the same time, does one generally pay for the other's drinks? Did you want to avoid the awkwardness of deciding who was going to pay? Did you want to avoid paying yourself? Making her pay?

If you had taken the elevator with your boss, would you have paid? Would she have paid? Would each of you have paid for your own drink? Would the bill have been split evenly?

Ultimately, since you did take the stairs, did she pay? Did you pay? Would each of you have paid for your own drink? Would the bill have been split evenly?

Did both of you order the same thing? Different things? Was hers more expensive? Less expensive?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:27 am

If two people arrive at the same time, does one generally pay for the other's drinks? no Did you want to avoid the awkwardness of deciding who was going to pay? no Did you want to avoid paying yourself? yes Making her pay? no

If you had taken the elevator with your boss, would you have paid? yes Would she have paid? no Would each of you have paid for your own drink? no Would the bill have been split evenly? no

Ultimately, since you did take the stairs, did she pay? yes Did you pay? no Would each of you have paid for your own drink? no Would the bill have been split evenly? no

Did both of you order the same thing? Different things? Was hers more expensive? Less expensive? irrel to all; assume they were similarly priced
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby hominid » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:33 am

Did she end up paying because she got there first? Because she arrived by elevator? Because she was alone and not with you?

Is anything about elevators relevant other than they're slightly faster than stairs? If you had somehow ended up getting there first despite taking the stairs (e.g. a holdup on the elevator) would your plan have failed?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:35 am

Did she end up paying because she got there first? no Because she arrived by elevator? Yes. Why? Because she was alone and not with you? yesish, in conjunction with the elevator aspect

Is anything about elevators relevant other than they're slightly faster than stairs? no If you had somehow ended up getting there first despite taking the stairs (e.g. a holdup on the elevator) would your plan have failed? no
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby trebor » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:04 am

Did she purchase the coffee through a mobile app? Perhaps while she was in the elevator? And since you were walking down the stairs, you wouldn’t be on your phone?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Earnest » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:08 am

Is the pub right in front of the elevator while the stairs end up in a different position? Or do they simply "surround" the elevator? Could you claim to have meet someone in the stairs and have been late? Did you arrive before her? Could you claim to have forgotten your wallet? Had she taken the stairs would you have opted for the elevator? Is the difference in "way of going to the pub" per se relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:38 pm

Are any chip cards used relevantly?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:45 pm

Trebor

Did she purchase the coffee through a mobile app? no Perhaps while she was in the elevator? n/a And since you were walking down the stairs, you wouldn’t be on your phone? no

Earnest

Is the pub right in front of the elevator while the stairs end up in a different position? irrelevant (and it's a cafe, not a pub. If I drank even half as much beer on the job as I did coffee, we'd have some pretty crazy property rights in NZ) Or do they simply "surround" the elevator? no Could you claim to have meet someone in the stairs and have been late? no Did you arrive before her? no - less than a minute after Could you claim to have forgotten your wallet? yes, but that would not have achieved much Had she taken the stairs would you have opted for the elevator? yes - but this particular scenario would probably not have happened if she'd chosen the stairs Is the difference in "way of going to the pub" per se relevant? No details of the journey or the outcome are relevant. All that matters is that she took the lift and I didn't.

LemonCurry

Are any chip cards used relevantly? no
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby hominid » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:17 pm

When she got to the bottom of the elevator, did she wait for you at the base of the elevator? At the entrance to the stairs? At the line for ordering? At some other place in the cafe? Did she just get in line? Did she hold a place in line for you?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:20 pm

When she got to the bottom of the elevator, did she wait for you at the base of the elevator? At the entrance to the stairs? At the line for ordering? At some other place in the cafe? Did she just get in line? Did she hold a place in line for you? None of this is really relevant. Assume I burst out of the stairwell when she was halfway between the lift foyer and the cafe (which was only a dozen or so metres away)
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:25 pm

was the cafe a Starbucks? (Just thought I'd ask, since I'm not sure how relevant any of my questions could possibly be).

I'm glad no Dwarves or Umbrellas were harmed, but what about hobbits? This is New Zealand after all, is it not... were there Elves? Were they harmed? I hope not... We know Bilbo has an umbrella stand...was this cafe in the Shire? Was your manager Lobelia Sackville-Baggins? She had an umbrella...*hopeful* (please don't tell me I'm on the wrong track...I live in hope that the wonderful WiZ is a resident of Middle-earth, even if only the cinematic version)
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:37 pm

was the cafe a Starbucks? (Just thought I'd ask, since I'm not sure how relevant any of my questions could possibly be). No - Starbucks actually isn't very successful in Australasia because we have so many better alternatives.

I'm glad no Dwarves or Umbrellas were harmed, but what about hobbits? They're fine too This is New Zealand after all, is it not... were there Elves? No Were they harmed? They were not I hope not... We know Bilbo has an umbrella stand...was this cafe in the Shire? No. Nor was it in Matamata (although, unlike Wellington, one could use an umbrella in Matamata without it being torn to shreds in seconds) Was your manager Lobelia Sackville-Baggins? No She had an umbrella...*hopeful* She lives in Christchurch, where it is also possible to use umbrellas, although they will not protect you from earthquakes (please don't tell me I'm on the wrong track...I live in hope that the wonderful WiZ is a resident of Middle-earth, even if only the cinematic version) Alas, this is set in the relatively mundane real-life New Zealand

I did enjoy your questions, though. Some established points to ponder:

  • My decision was based on avoiding paying for my much-better-paid manager's coffee
  • I had intended initially to take the lift, but changed my mind
  • My manager and I saw each other on 10F when she was an occupant in the lift, but I was not
  • There is no established cultural paradigm dictating who buys the other coffee under certain circumstances (including, but not limited to, who arrives at the cafe first)
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby trebor » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:40 pm

Did you suspect that someone else relevant would get on the lift? That it would have to stop at other floors? Would she do anything relevant in the lift? Would you do anything relevant on the stairs?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:45 pm

Did you suspect that someone else relevant would get on the lift? no That it would have to stop at other floors? no Would she do anything relevant in the lift? no Would you do anything relevant on the stairs? no (other than avoid being in the lift)
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:12 pm

are you single? is the manager? were you afraid this might look like a date if you had to pay for the coffee? would you want it to be a date? do you fancy your manager? (sorry if any of this is getting too personal...just trying to think of the possible repercussions of a (male?) employee and a female manager meeting for coffee alone.)
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:19 pm

are you single? no is the manager? no were you afraid this might look like a date if you had to pay for the coffee? no would you want it to be a date? no do you fancy your manager? (sorry if any of this is getting too personal...just trying to think of the possible repercussions of a (male?) employee and a female manager meeting for coffee alone.)

I read that as your intention, don't worry. No - our relationship is strictly professional, but in a convivial, banter-y sort of way... this information might be of use.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Doriana » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:55 pm

Would you have done the same with a co-worker who is on the same pay grade as you?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:11 am

Would you have done the same with a co-worker who is on the same pay grade as you? Yes, although perhaps been a bit guiltier about it... I'd have to be quite confident that they wouldn't be offended by my gambit
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby gregoryuconn » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:47 am

Did you think your manager would force you to buy the coffee if you guys got there first? Would she threaten to fire you if you didn't pay for her coffee? Jokingly? Seriously? Were you concerned that she'd jokingly threaten it but someone would think it was serious and she'd get in trouble?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:44 am

Did you think your manager would force you to buy the coffee yes (well, 'oblige') if you guys got there first? but not this/FA Would she threaten to fire you if you didn't pay for her coffee? no Jokingly? Seriously? n/a to both Were you concerned that she'd jokingly threaten it but someone would think it was serious and she'd get in trouble? no
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Balin » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:26 am

Did your manager see you at all on the way to the cafe?
Is the coffee ordered inside the cafe?
Was someone waiting for you/the manager in the cafe?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Earnest » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:23 am

Your aim = she offers you the coffee? You pay your coffee and she pays hers? You both meet after the coffee break? Avoid embarassing situation in which you and her are alone and you find yourself obliged to offer her a coffee? Claim to have already had a coffee? (E.g. vending machine on the way to the caffe)
Is it crucial that she arrived before you? Is this the relevance of the elevator? Or is there more to it? Kind of "in the lift the path from the 10th to the ground floor is flat and without the possibility to stop somewhere in between/see something/meet someone"?
Had she already taken a coffee when you arrive less than one minute after her at the caffe? If so, did you expect that? Was she alone in the elevator? Maybe with someone else who was forced to offer the coffee in your place?

To be sure...had you taken the lift, would she have taken the coffee at the caffe or, before entering the caffe she would have asked you to take her a coffee?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Enjay » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:16 pm

Is it relevant how she or you would have paid for the coffee? Wild guess - you pay for coffees with some kind of employee ID card, and you said you didn't have yours so couldn't pay, but you need the ID card to operate the lift so if you had taken the lift she would have known you had it?

Did you lie to or deceive your manager at any point? Did she pay because you couldn't? Because she felt she owed you? Because it was more convenient?

Is the fact she arrived first relevant? If both of you had taken the stairs, would she still have paid for the same reason?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby KayleeArafinwiel » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:55 pm

o hi Enjay-the-Devoner :D *has missed Enjay* how is Devon? do they still have scones the wrong way around? ;) hehe

*waits for the answers to Enjay's q's, and maybe some on my own puzzle, so I can work more on this puzzling conundrum*
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:54 pm

Balin

Did your manager see you at all on the way to the cafe? Yes, when she was in the lift and I was not
Is the coffee ordered inside the cafe? yes
Was someone waiting for you/the manager in the cafe? no

Earnest

Your aim = she offers you the coffee? yes You pay your coffee and she pays hers? no You both meet after the coffee break? no Avoid embarassing situation in which you and her are alone and you find yourself obliged to offer her a coffee? no Claim to have already had a coffee? (E.g. vending machine on the way to the caffe) no
Is it crucial that she arrived before you? Not at the cafe, but people arriving before others is relevant Is this the relevance of the elevator? yes, arriving before others is relevant as it pertains to the lift Or is there more to it? Kind of "in the lift the path from the 10th to the ground floor is flat and without the possibility to stop somewhere in between/see something/meet someone"? no, this is not relevant
Had she already taken a coffee when you arrive less than one minute after her at the caffe? no, she would have waited to ask me what I wanted If so, did you expect that? I expected this Was she alone in the elevator? yes Maybe with someone else who was forced to offer the coffee in your place? no

To be sure...had you taken the lift, would she have taken the coffee at the caffe or, before entering the caffe she would have asked you to take her a coffee? The 'contract' for me to buy the coffees would have been completed before we reached the cafe

Enjay

Is it relevant how she or you would have paid for the coffee? no Wild guess - you pay for coffees with some kind of employee ID card, and you said you didn't have yours so couldn't pay, but you need the ID card to operate the lift so if you had taken the lift she would have known you had it? no

Did you lie to or deceive your manager at any point? no - although arguably 'tricked' Did she pay because you couldn't? no Because she felt she owed you? yope - more in a contractual than an ethical sense Because it was more convenient? no

Is the fact she arrived first relevant? not to the cafe, but explore If both of you had taken the stairs, would she still have paid for the same reason? It's unlikely that this scenario would have arisen if she had taken the stairs. However, all other things being equal, I could have obliged her to pay by taking the elevator after seeing her enter the stairwell


Kaylee Kitteh

*waits for the answers to Enjay's q's, and maybe some on my own puzzle, so I can work more on this puzzling conundrum* I hope this was useful.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Doriana » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:08 pm

Is it relevant that she arrived on the ground floor first?

Is anything else relevantly located on the ground floor? Is anything about the architecture of the ground floor relevant?

Are other people relevant? If so, customers of the café? baristas?
Is the café open to the public? or only to people who work in the building? relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Is it relevant that she arrived on the ground floor first? no

Is anything else relevantly located on the ground floor? no Is anything about the architecture of the ground floor relevant? no

Are other people relevant? no If so, customers of the café? baristas? n/a to b oth
Is the café open to the public? yes or only to people who work in the building? no relevant? no

A reminder: It is relevant that my manager and I saw each other on 10F when she was an occupant in the lift, but I was not
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Doriana » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 pm

Holding the door relevant? Did you "trick" her into thinking she failed to hold the door for you, so that she would feel guilty and buy you coffee?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:26 pm

Holding the door relevant? no Did you "trick" her into thinking she failed to hold the door for you, so that she would feel guilty and buy you coffee? no, my 'trick' was a bit less cruel
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Doriana » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:30 pm

Is making her feel guilty relevant at all?

Does either of you relevantly say anything when you see each other on the 10th floor?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:34 pm

Is making her feel guilty relevant at all? no

Does either of you relevantly say anything when you see each other on the 10th floor? YES!

!!

!!!

!!!!

!!!!!
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Doriana » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:37 pm

Do you say something relevant? Does she?

Is the relevant thing about taking the lift? not taking the lift? taking the stairs? buying coffee? drinking coffee? Did you challenge her to a race? Does she offer to hold the door? Does she ask whether you want to take the lift? Does either of you misunderstand the other one? Puns or wordplay relevant at all?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:40 pm

Do you say something relevant? Does she? She does

Is the relevant thing about taking the lift? yes not taking the lift? no taking the stairs? no buying coffee? yes drinking coffee? no Did you challenge her to a race? no Does she offer to hold the door? no Does she ask whether you want to take the lift? no Does either of you misunderstand the other one? no Puns no or wordplay noish relevant at all?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby trebor » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:17 am

Does she ask if you want to take the lift with her? Did you feign not hearing whatever she said? Relevant whether you were wearing headphones or not? Or if she was?

It is relevant that she arrived somewhere first, correct? If so, at the elevator? At the 10th floor? Did she get on at the 10th floor? Above? Below?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:51 pm

Does she ask if you want to take the lift with her? no Did you feign not hearing whatever she said? no Relevant whether you were wearing headphones or not? no Or if she was? no

It is relevant that she arrived somewhere first, correct? yes If so, at the elevator? yes At the 10th floor? no Did she get on at the 10th floor? yes Above? Below? no to these
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby trebor » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:18 pm

Did you see her once she was already in the elevator? Before she got in? Same questions for when she saw you. Did she assume, when she arrived first, that you were already in the cafe? Or on the way down?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:31 pm

Did you see her once she was already in the elevator? yes Before she got in? no Same questions for when she saw you. Assume we noticed each other simultaneously Did she assume, when she arrived first, that you were already in the cafe? Or on the way down? She assumed I was headed to the same meeting, yes.

It is relevant that she was already in the liftevator when she noticed me and spoke. If neither of us had reached the elevift at that stage, this gambit would not have occurred.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby trebor » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:17 am

What I meant was, is it relevant whether, upon arriving at the lift and not yet seeing you there, she assumed you had beaten her to the cafe. Is it?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:22 am

What I meant was, is it relevant whether, upon arriving at the lift and not yet seeing you there, she assumed you had beaten her to the cafe. Is it? Ah, I see now. The answer is no - she had made no such assumption. Indeed, she was most likely aware that I was (probably) not far behind her.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:04 pm

Are "elevator pitches" relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:24 pm

Are "elevator pitches" relevant? no (although she has certainly devoted a lot of time and energy to drilling me on these: P)
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:17 am

Did your manager suggest something in the vein of "Whoever does X pays for the coffee"? And you avoided X by walking the stairs?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Enjay » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:39 pm

Was her buying you the coffee in exchange for something? For a previous time you had bought her something? For a service you had done her? For allowing her to do something? For something you would do in the future?

Was the thing she said an offer to buy you coffee? A request for you to buy coffee? A question about who would buy coffee? Did she know you heard her? Did you pretend not to hear, or to mishear?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:48 pm

LemonCurry

Did your manager suggest something in the vein of "Whoever does X pays for the coffee"? YES! And you avoided X by walking the stairs? YES!

Enjay

Was her buying you the coffee in exchange for something? no For a previous time you had bought her something? no For a service you had done her? no For allowing her to do something? no For something you would do in the future? no

Was the thing she said an offer to buy you coffee? no A request for you to buy coffee? noish to yope A question about who would buy coffee? noish Did she know you heard her? yes - and she understood why I did what I did Did you pretend not to hear, or to mishear? no
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Balin » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:56 pm

First one down pays? Whoever opens the door pays?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:58 pm

First one down pays? no - this would be difficult if we both arrived at the same time in the lift, which is what the manager expected.

Edit (but you started it): Whoever opens the door pays? No, but closer
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby Doriana » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:06 pm

"Whoever pushes the button pays for coffee"?
"Last one to get in the elevator pays for coffee"?
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed

Postby WiZ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:20 pm

"Last one to get in the elevator pays for coffee"?

***** SPOILER *****

I approached the lift on 10F to find my manager waiting in it. She grinned at me and said 'Last one in buys coffee!'

To her surprise, I turned around and headed down the stairs to the cafe, thinking about the free coffee I was going to receive upon arrival.


Aftermath:
My team, which is mostly based in the cities of Christchurch and Hamilton, got an e-mail from my manager shortly before Christmas saying that we would all receive 'a nice surprise in the internal mail'. The package was waiting for me on my desk when I came back to work on Monday. I opened it to reveal a (quite expensive-looking) Christmas cracker.
Which she had sent me knowing full well that I am the only member of the Learning and Support team in the Wellington office and would have nobody to crack it with. Well played.

Congratulations to Doriana on the solution, and thank you everyone for playing! Did not in a million years expect that one to be a long-runner.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed [LIFTED-OFF]

Postby Balin » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:29 pm

So I went to see this Facebook post of yours, and it turns out I had read it, and as evident by my guesses, had also forgotten it.

Time to crack open a GDoc to start a Best of 2019 Nominations list...
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed [LIFTED-OFF]

Postby trebor » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:45 am

Yep, well done on that one. On the puzzle and the gambit.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed [LIFTED-OFF]

Postby peter365 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:27 am

As a facebook friend of yours I couldn't join in with one but I enjoyed watching everyone dance around the solution from under the comfort of my 'I know the solution' blanket.
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Re: [WiZ] No Dwarves or Umbrellas were Harmed [LIFTED-OFF]

Postby Doriana » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:26 pm

Revenge is a dish best served in the internal mail.

When my supervisor and I go grab coffee, I always conveniently forget my wallet. I don't think she has caught on yet - or maybe she has, but doesn't mind, because she knows her grad students are underpaid.
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