[WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

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[WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby WiZ » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:30 pm

Amy is visiting her friend Tori in her lovely home.

'New cats, I see', Amy says, looking at the two tortoiseshell toms strut about the house.

'No', says Tori, very seriously. 'They're the same cats. They've just a different colour now'.

Why does Tori say this?


BOATS. Caveat Earlispoilor.
Last edited by WiZ on Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:53 pm

Is it relevant that torties generally aren't toms? Is the tortie or calico pattern relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby WiZ » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:29 pm

Is it relevant that torties generally aren't toms? Haha! This illustrates nothing more than the fact that WiZ is not a cat person :) Is the tortie or calico pattern relevant? no
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby gregoryuconn » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:21 am

Were they actually new cats? If so, was she aware of this? Or did someone else switch them out and lie to her? Or perhaps she was delusional? Did she just paint the old ones? Or some other form of animal abuse/torture to make them different colors?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby Earnest » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:09 am

Sorry for this pos, I have connection problems....see next one for my questions, please. Thank you!
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby Earnest » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:10 am

Relevant that they are toms?
Is Tori's sentence metaphorical (e.g. there were cats coming to her house perioducally annoying her or her cats and she replied to Amy as if she was saying "different cats but same annoying routine"?)? If not are they new cats? Had Tori ever owned cats? Adopted? Gave food to cats coming around? If "yes" to one of the previous, did she own cats with a different colour with respect to the ones indicated by Amy? Is the musical "Cats" relevant? Is Tori referring to the same cats mentioned by Amy?

With the adjective "new" did Amy mean: new with respect to the previous ones owned by Tori? New puppies? Newly adopted cats? Cats not previously present near the house but not owned by Tori?

They're the same cats. They've just a different colour now --> They are the same cats = Had Amy previously seen other cats in or near Tori's house? If so, is Tori referring to them with "same cats"? To their appearence and behavior?
They've just a different colour now --> they have a different color of the fur (hope it is correct)? Of the eyes? Of a specific physical trait? Is Tori referring to the tortoiseshell color (to the color of the cats to which Amy was referribg to)? Or is it something metaphorical to say for instance "they have a collar with a different color"?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby WiZ » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:00 pm

GregoryUConn

Were they actually new cats? yes If so, was she aware of this? yes Or did someone else switch them out and lie to her? no Or perhaps she was delusional? no Did she just paint the old ones? no Or some other form of animal abuse/torture to make them different colors? no - no animals were harmed in the making of this puzzle

Earnest

Relevant that they are toms? no (I just did this for alliteration - I was always better at english than science!)
Is Tori's sentence metaphorical (e.g. there were cats coming to her house perioducally annoying her or her cats and she replied to Amy as if she was saying "different cats but same annoying routine"?)? no; she meant what she said literally If not are they new cats? yes Had Tori ever owned cats? Adopted? Gave food to cats coming around? not relevantly to all If "yes" to one of the previous, did she own cats with a different colour with respect to the ones indicated by Amy? n/a Is the musical "Cats" relevant? no Is Tori referring to the same cats mentioned by Amy? yes - the 'they' refers to the two tortie toms
With the adjective "new" did Amy mean: new with respect to the previous ones owned by Tori? yes (i.e. newly acquired by whatever means) New puppies? no - she could see they were adult cats, not kittens Newly adopted cats? yes Cats not previously present near the house but not owned by Tori? no

They're the same cats. They've just a different colour now --> They are the same cats = Had Amy previously seen other cats in or near Tori's house? yes, in If so, is Tori referring to them with "same cats"? yes To their appearence and behavior? no
They've just a different colour now --> they have a different color of the fur (hope it is correct)? yes Of the eyes? Of a specific physical trait? no to both - but this puzzle could have worked on the basis of any obvious/noticeable difference Is Tori referring to the tortoiseshell color (to the color of the cats to which Amy was referribg to)? yes Or is it something metaphorical to say for instance "they have a collar with a different color"? no
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby gregoryuconn » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:56 pm

Is Tori attempting to mislead Amy? Confuse her? Annoy her?

Is there any relevant relationship between Tori and Amy? Between Amy and the old cats? Or the new ones? Are any other people relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby GalFisk » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:12 pm

Does Tori expect to be taken seriously? Does she want to see Amy's reaction? Is she being sarcastic? Is she referencing something that has happened earlier? Something that has been said? Relevant what happened to the old cats? Other humans relevant? Other cats? Does Tory want Amy to believe they are the same? To tell someone else that they are the same?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby peter365 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:59 am

Are both the previous and current ones real living domestic cats?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby WiZ » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:19 am

GregoryUConn

Is Tori attempting to mislead Amy? yes Confuse her? Annoy her? no to both

Is there any relevant relationship between Tori and Amy? no (assume friends) Between Amy and the old cats? Or the new ones? no to both Are any other people relevant? yes

GalFisk

Does Tori expect to be taken seriously? yes Does she want to see Amy's reaction? no Is she being sarcastic? no Is she referencing something that has happened earlier? yes Something that has been said? no Relevant what happened to the old cats? yes Other humans relevant? yes Other cats? no (other than the prior cats) Does Tory want Amy to believe they are the same? To tell someone else that they are the same? more this

Peter

Are both the previous and current ones real living domestic cats? Both are real domestic cats; current cats are alive, previous ones are not
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby gregoryuconn » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:22 am

Is there one other person relevant? More than one? Are they H? A? M? Still alive? Are they related to Tori? To Amy? Were the old cats a dying gift from Tori's grandfather or something? If so, did Amy know Tori's grandfather as well? And Tori wanted Amy to think they were still alive so she'd have something to remember him by?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby WiZ » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:38 pm

Is there one other person relevant? yes More than one? no Are they H? A? yes to both M? Still alive? no to both Are they related to Tori? yes To Amy? no Were the old cats a dying gift from Tori's grandfather or something? noish, but explore If so, did Amy know Tori's grandfather as well? no And Tori wanted Amy to think they were still alive so she'd have something to remember him by? no, this thinking does not play a part in the solution
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby Hobbsicle » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:33 pm

So is the third person present? Relevantly within earshot? Is Tori trying to mislead the third person? More so than Amy? Does the third person believe they are the same cats?

Is anyone in this puzzle blind? A midget? (I mean, you never know)
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby gregoryuconn » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:56 pm

So the first person is dead then? And female (or she was)? Was she Tori's grandmother? Her aunt? Can we call her Dead Granny Gertrude? So it was sort of a dying gift from Dead Granny Gertrude but not really? Did Tori inherit it from Dead Granny Gertrude? Was there anything else relevant in the will? Legal fictions relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby Hobbsicle » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:13 am

Oh, I missed the not still alive part. Ignore me, I’ll just be over here, standing awkwardly in the corner.
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby GalFisk » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:00 am

Did the previous cats and the dead person die at the same time? From the same cause?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby WiZ » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:10 am

Hobbsicle

So is the third person present? Relevantly within earshot? no to these Is Tori trying to mislead the third person? no More so than Amy? no Does the third person believe they are the same cats? no

Is anyone in this puzzle blind? A midget? no to both (I mean, you never know) A wise precaution

GregoryUConn

So the first person is dead then? yes And female (or she was)? yes (although not very relevantly) Was she Tori's grandmother? I was thinking mother, but this works equally well Her aunt? also a possibility, albeit less likely Can we call her Dead Granny Gertrude? For the purposes of this puzzle, 'Dead Granny Gertrude' works.

So it was sort of a dying gift from Dead Granny Gertrude but not really? yes Did Tori inherit it from Dead Granny Gertrude? yes Was there anything else relevant in the will? yes Legal fictions relevant? I think not

Hobbsicle Redux

Oh, I missed the not still alive part. Ignore me, I’ll just be over here, standing awkwardly in the corner. Send my regards to Michael Stipe.

GalFisk

Did the previous cats and the dead person die at the same time? From the same cause? no to both
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby peter365 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:16 am

Is it Tori's intention to give the impression that she was not a beneficairy of the will? Is there a family dispute? Were the cats named in the will?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby gregoryuconn » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:29 pm

Did Dead Granny Gertrude set up a trust fund for the cats? Which was only valid as long as the cats were alive? And once they died the money would go elsewhere? But tori was using the money on the new cats?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby WiZ » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:40 am

Peter

Is it Tori's intention to give the impression that she was not a beneficairy of the will? no Is there a family dispute? no Were the cats named in the will? yes

GregoryUConn

Did Dead Granny Gertrude set up a trust fund for the cats? no Which was only valid as long as the cats were alive? But this condition is relevant And once they died the money would go elsewhere? yes, in principle - see previous But tori was using the money on the new cats? no
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby Balin » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:21 pm

Is this a Replacement Goldfish situation? Perhaps the cats named in the will died and Tori is pretending these new cats are the originals? Thereby letting Tori keep the money from the will?
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Re: [WiZ] Tori's Tortoiseshell Toms

Postby WiZ » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:03 pm

Is this a Replacement Goldfish situation? Perhaps the cats named in the will died and Tori is pretending these new cats are the originals? Thereby letting Tori keep the money from the will?

***** SPOILER *****

Tori's late Grandmother Gertrude had left a will stipulating that her house went to Tori as executor, to be sold once the last of her [Gertrude's] cats died.

Wanting to keep the house, Tori bought replacement cats and threw herself wholeheartedly into the fiction that they were the same ones!


Congratulations, Balin, on the solution, and thank you everyone for playing!
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