[CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

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[CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:20 pm

It is common in today's world for certain people to receive something they didn't ask for but someone knew they needed. This only happens when another person(s) loses something that they need. In some cases, the situation could make a very generous and kind person seem to be quite rude and insensitive. Why?
Last edited by CoffeeBean on Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:04 pm

Losing something they need: something they have a use for? Something they need to survive? Thrive? Perform a task? Relevant? Something: an object? A substance? Something abstract? Their life?
Lose: mislay? Abandon? Destroy? Drop? Squander? Give away?
Organ donations relevant?
Can the generous and kind person that looks rude and insensitive be: the one who needed something but didn't ask for it? The one who knew they needed something? The one that lost something?
Is the thing received the same thing as the thing lost? Related to the thing lost? Is money relevant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:13 pm

Losing something they need: something they have a use for? Yes but indirectly Something they need to survive? In some cases but not always Thrive? Yes Perform a task? No Relevant? Yes
Something: an object? A substance? Something abstract? This Their life? No to this
Lose: mislay? Abandon? In some cases this Destroy? Drop? Squander? Also this in some cases Give away? No
Organ donations relevant? No
Can the generous and kind person that looks rude and insensitive be: the one who needed something but didn't ask for it? Yes The one who knew they needed something? No The one that lost something? No
Is the thing received the same thing as the thing lost? No Related to the thing lost? Yes, directly related
Is money relevant? Indirectly, yes
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:36 pm

The thing lost: their health? Well being? Sanity? Productivity? Home? Job? Youth?
The thing received: and object? An opportunity? Money? A substance? Something abstract?
Is the profession of the person knowing about the need relevant? If so, is it related to medicine? Finance? Government? Aid?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:22 pm

The thing lost: their health? Well being? Sanity? Productivity? Home? Job? This Youth?
The thing received: and object? Yes, this An opportunity? Money? A substance? Something abstract?
Is the profession of the person knowing about the need relevant? Yes If so, is it related to medicine? Finance? Government? Aid? There's a chance it could be related to one of these, but it's more related to another type of work
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:44 am

Would one person losing their job mean one person receiving an object? Or would there be more than one object from one job loss? Or more job losses required in order to gain one object?
Reason for the loss of a job relevant? If so: downsizing? Bankruptcy? Redundancy? Worker's own incompetence? Worker's fireable offense? Former profession of the worker relevant? Did the worker use the object given to the needy? Is the rudeness and insensitivity related to benefitting from the misfortune of others?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:32 pm

Would one person losing their job mean one person receiving an object? Yes
Or would there be more than one object from one job loss? Yes, very possible
Or more job losses required in order to gain one object? No
Reason for the loss of a job relevant? No If so: downsizing? Bankruptcy? Redundancy? Worker's own incompetence? Worker's fireable offense?
Former profession of the worker relevant? Yes Did the worker use the object given to the needy? Yes
Is the rudeness and insensitivity related to benefitting from the misfortune of others? Yes, there's a direct connection.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:56 am

Did the worker use this object for work? Did they lose the object because it belonged to their employer? Because they could not afford to keep it? Is the object bigger than a breadbox? Is the profession of the recipient relevant? Does the recipient know getting the object is the result of someone losing their job? Do recipients ever choose to not accept the object?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:06 am

Did the worker provide a service to the person? Is the person losing job satisfy a need of the other without the other been aware of it?

something they didn't ask for: had they known the other person lost the job, would they have asked for it?...but someone knew they needed --> because is it the cause of them losing their job? Do they know immediately after having lost the job? Do they need someone else doing the same job to substitute the one who lost it? Relevant?

Something received: a permission? A signature? A document? The right to do something? A password? The possibility to protect something? An insurance? A communication? An advice to find someone else with that same job that he/she lost as soon as he /she can? Something personally related to the needy? With his name on it? Any of these relevant: phone number/password/bank account/blood/DNA/ID/name/pictures/something else personal?

Is the job lost in the field of: entertainment? Food? Finance? Music? Health care? Communications? Technology? Internet? Others?

Was the need of the needy previously satisfied by the job? Is the person who has the need aware of the fact that the other person has lost the job? Is the need satisfied necessary for the person to keep living? To die soon? To be aware of something negative that could happen? Possible violation of privacy? Embarassment?

could make a very generous and kind person seem to be quite rude and insensitive. --> the person who lost the job? The one whose need is satisfied? Someone else?
Is the need firectly created by the lost of the job? E.g. a person renting something; he/she lost the job and have to take the something rent to the person who rented it creating a need. Are the person losing the job and the person whose need is satisfied related? If so: friends? Married? Relatives? Collegues? Others? Customer and worker? Boss (receiving object) and employee (losing job)?

WAG --> if private detectives lose their job they are forced to give theinvestigated person the pictures of them admitting of having violated their privacy?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:52 pm

Did the worker use this object for work? Yes Did they lose the object because it belonged to their employer? No
Because they could not afford to keep it? No Is the object bigger than a breadbox? Slightly, in one respect
Is the profession of the recipient relevant? No Does the recipient know getting the object is the result of someone losing their job? No, very likely not (good q) Do recipients ever choose to not accept the object? Highly doubtful

Did the worker provide a service to the person? Not directly Is the person losing job satisfy a need of the other without the other been aware of it? Yes

something they didn't ask for: had they known the other person lost the job, would they have asked for it? Probably not
...but someone knew they needed --> because is it the cause of them losing their job? No
Do they know immediately after having lost the job? No (good q)
Do they need someone else doing the same job to substitute the one who lost it? Yes, in nearly all cases Relevant? Yes

Something received: a permission? A signature? A document? The right to do something? A password? The possibility to protect something? An insurance? A communication? An advice to find someone else with that same job that he/she lost as soon as he /she can? Something personally related to the needy? With his name on it? No to all
Any of these relevant: phone number/password/bank account/blood/DNA/ID/name/pictures/something else personal? No

Is the job lost in the field of: entertainment? Food? Finance? Music? Health care? Communications? Technology? Internet? Others? There are numerous fields that could be involved. From your list I would say that Health Care, Communications, Technology are the most likely but there are many others that share one relevant aspect.

Was the need of the needy previously satisfied by the job? No
Is the person who has the need aware of the fact that the other person has lost the job? Most likely not, no
Is the need satisfied necessary for the person to keep living? No, but OTRT To die soon? No
To be aware of something negative that could happen? No Possible violation of privacy? Embarassment? No to these

could make a very generous and kind person seem to be quite rude and insensitive. --> the person who lost the job? No... The one whose need is satisfied?...this, yes. Someone else? No
Is the need directly created by the lost of the job? No E.g. a person renting something; he/she lost the job and have to take the something rent to the person who rented it creating a need.
Are the person losing the job and the person whose need is satisfied related? Not at all, no If so: friends? Married? Relatives? Collegues? Others? Customer and worker? No to all
Boss (receiving object) and employee (losing job)? This is the right connection between the person receiving the object and the person losing the job, but it's not boss and employee. As noted above, there is no real direct connection between the two people.

WAG --> if private detectives lose their job they are forced to give the investigated person the pictures of them admitting of having violated their privacy? No but good guess
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:27 pm

Is the object given directly by the one who lost the job? Face to face?, through mail service? Relevant? Is the object given bigger than a baseball ball? Than a football ball? Is it a technological object? Are recordings relevant? Memory? Badges? Usb pen?

Is the need satisfied necessary for the person to keep receiving a certain service? Credit cards involved? To carry on doing his every day life? Is the need an every day need if not satisfied? If so, a basal need (eat, drink, cure, go to the toilet, take pills, not get ill, not becoming a criminal, not going against the law, carry on having technology/house)?

Aspect shared: info given by customer? Privacy? Internet? Use of technology? Payment methods? Need for permissions?

could make a very generous and kind person seem to be quite rude and insensitive. --> toward the one who lost the job? Does the one who lost the job have a similar object? And have to give his object to the other person?, something like "my life against yours"? "My benefit against yours"? Are money involved? Charity? Piety? Egoistic behaviors? Others?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:02 pm

Is the object given directly by the one who lost the job? No Face to face? At some point, yes
Through mail service? This is also involved, yes Relevant? Yes Is the object given bigger than a baseball ball? I'd say not Than a football ball? Yes Is it a technological object? No
Are recordings relevant? Memory? Badges? Usb pen? None of these

Is the need satisfied necessary for the person to keep receiving a certain service? Of a sort, yes Credit cards involved? No To carry on doing his every day life? Yes, it involves an aspect of everyday life
Is the need an every day need if not satisfied? Yes If so, a basal need (eat, drink, cure, go to the toilet, take pills, not get ill, not becoming a criminal, not going against the law, carry on having technology/house)? Yes, but not any of these

Aspect shared: info given by customer? Privacy? Internet? Use of technology? Payment methods? No to these
Need for permissions? Yes-ish to this

could make a very generous and kind person seem to be quite rude and insensitive. --> toward the one who lost the job? No Does the one who lost the job have a similar object? Yes, possible FA here
And have to give his object to the other person? He doesn't have to, but he does (see below)
something like "my life against yours"? "My benefit against yours"? Not really Are money involved? Charity? Yes to this Piety? Egoistic behaviors? Others? No to these
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:23 pm

Charity in general? Toward the one losing the job? Is the object been given back (in the sense that the one receiving it had given in a first place)? Charity toward someone in particular? Charity = donating money to someone? Donating the object to someone? Donating to someone?
Religion/culture relevant? Discrimination?

Every day life need satisfied: necessity not to do something?

Aspect of every day life involved: personal health care? Washing oneself? Reading newspapers? waking up? Going to sleep? Eating? Chatting? Going to a relevant place? (Bank/transactions?...) sport? Religion? Making a relevant action that need to be done at the same hour of the day?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:28 pm

Charity in general? One certain act of it Toward the one losing the job? No
Is the object been given back (in the sense that the one receiving it had given in a first place)? No
Charity toward someone in particular? Not to one certain person, no Charity = donating money to someone? Donating, yes, but not money Donating the object Yes, and eventually... to someone? ...this.
Donating to someone? Indirectly, yes
Religion/culture relevant? Discrimination? No to both

Every day life need satisfied: necessity not to do something? No

Aspect of every day life involved: personal health care? Washing oneself? Reading newspapers? waking up? Going to sleep? Eating? Chatting? Going to a relevant place? (Bank/transactions?...) sport? Religion? None of these
Making a relevant action that need to be done at the same hour of the day? Yes
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:37 pm

Has the object a display? Is the object usually donated? If so, after the worker loses his/her job? Does the one who has the need have it because he has the object? Does he need to do what the worker did with the object in order not to have the need?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:22 pm

Has the object a display? What kind? Is the object usually donated? This type of object is very often dontated, yes If so, after the worker loses his/her job? Yes
Does the one who has the need have it because he has the object? Can you ask this another way?
Does he need to do what the worker did with the object in order not to have the need? Yes
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:02 pm

Is the object edible? Electronic? Disposable? Useful? Pretty? Wearable? Longer than a breadbox? Taller? Wider? Is it a tool?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:56 pm

Donated by people to other peopl,e? To people having the same need as them? Donated to someone who has the same job as the one who lost it? Does the person donate the object voluntarily in a first instance? Before the other lost the job? Is the donation made as soon as any indirect relation with the firm of the one who post the job happens? Before? After? After any transaction is made? Is something like: buy a book and then tou can add up money to be donated/ buy something else to give to poor people?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:13 pm

Is the object edible? Electronic? Disposable? Useful? This... Pretty? Wearable? ...and this.
Longer than a breadbox? Possibly Taller? Wider? Most likely Is it a tool? No

Donated by people to other people? Yes To people having the same need as them? No
Donated to someone who has the same job as the one who lost it? No
Does the person donate the object voluntarily in a first instance? Yes Before the other lost the job? I'm not sure what you mean by this...
Is the donation made as soon as any indirect relation with the firm of the one who post the job happens? Before? After? Can you rephrase?
After any transaction is made? Is something like: buy a book and then you can add up money to be donated/ buy something else to give to poor people? No it's not like this
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:43 pm

So does the one with the need, donate the object before the worker who lose his job actually lose the job?

The second question was: the object is donated voluntarily in a first instance right? By the one who later on has the need right? If so, does he donate the object before entertaining any commercial relation with the company to which the worker who lost the job used to work?

When the one who loses the job actually lose the job, does he take the object back? Have a relevant relation with the one to which the object has been donated? Did the one who lost the job use the object by: wearing it? Donating to others? Making donations?
Does the person who has the need ( is A fine?) know that the one given by the person who lost the jpb (can we call him B?) is the same object he donated? Is in fact the same object? Is the object donated old? Has it been donated in a first instance because it was broken? No more used?

Is the object: t-shirt? Shoes? Pants? Hat? Headphones? Glasses? Masks? A swatch? A piece of clothing? Something that before was wore by the person who has the need now?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:10 pm

So does the one with the need, donate the object before the worker who lose his job actually lose the job? The object is donated to the one in need after the other one loses his/her job.

The second question was: the object is donated voluntarily in a first instance right? Yes By the one who later on has the need right? No, not this If so, does he donate the object before entertaining any commercial relation with the company to which the worker who lost the job used to work? The person in need does not ever interact with the one who has the job or the company for which they work.

When the one who loses the job actually lose the job, does he take the object back? Back to where? Have a relevant relation with the one to which the object has been donated? No
Did the one who lost the job use the object by: wearing it? Yes, this Donating to others? Making donations?
Does the person who has the need ( is A fine?) know that the one given by the person who lost the job (can we call him B?) is the same object he donated? No, A does not know anything about the job that A had
Is in fact the same object? Yes, B receives the same object that A donates Is the object donated old? Possibly, but this does not have to be the case
Has it been donated in a first instance because it was broken? No No more used? Yes, this

Is the object: t-shirt? Yes, it is a T-shirt Shoes? Pants? Hat? Headphones? Glasses? Masks? A swatch? A piece of clothing?
Something that before was wore by the person who has the need now? Not the shirt that A donates, no
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:18 pm

Is it part of a company uniform? Is it given to the homeless? Poor? Victims of misfortune or disaster? To a charity? Are charities inundated with company clothing after mass layoffs, making them seem like they're taking advantage of those?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:53 am

T-shirts belonging to the old company? Someone maybe want to keep them and not give them to poor people? Do employee sometimes customize their t-shirts? Afe sizes relevant? Do employee sometimes exploit the shirts for other uses (e.g. protesting against the company, re use the t-shirts, using them as a proof)? Is it considered a "company routine" rhat fired employees give t-shirts/other accessories to charity? If so, are advertising campaigns on sensibility relevant?

Do some people not donate the t-shirt? If so, do they keep the t-shirt? Give it back to the firm? Burn it? Sell it?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:15 pm

Is it part of a company uniform? It is worn by employees of certain companies
Is it given to the homeless? Poor? Victims of misfortune or disaster? Could be any of these To a charity? Initially, yes Are charities inundated with company clothing after mass layoffs, making them seem like they're taking advantage of those? No, not in this case. And there is a FA about the clothing and the employees who wear it.

T-shirts belonging to the old company? They belong to the employees Someone maybe want to keep them and not give them to poor people? Maybe, but the relevant shirts are the ones that are donated
Do employee sometimes customize their t-shirts? Not these Are sizes relevant? To a degree, yes
Do employee sometimes exploit the shirts for other uses (e.g. protesting against the company, re use the t-shirts, using them as a proof)? No Is it considered a "company routine" that fired employees give t-shirts/other accessories to charity? No If so, are advertising campaigns on sensibility relevant? No

Do some people not donate the t-shirt? If so, do they keep the t-shirt? Give it back to the firm? Burn it? Sell it? This may be the case sometimes, but not relevant here. The relevant shirts are ones that people donate to charity after they lose their job at certain businesses or places.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:04 am

Is there relevant text on the t-shirt? Relevant graphics? A relevant color? Is the t-shirt provided by the company? Bought by the employee? Given to the employee? Does the generous person look selfish by wearing the t-shirt?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:47 am

Are the relevant t-shirts meant to be donated? If so, do employees know it as soon as they receive their job? As soon as they lose it? Are t-shirts wore at a daily basis by employees? If so inside the company? Could the same person be donated the same t-shirt twice? Are the t-shirts enough to satisfy the need of anyone who have the same need? If not, are t shirts donated following a certain criterion? Do other people in need ask for the t shirts? If so, after having seen them wore by others? Do people in need relevantly know/discovers that t-shirts of people losing their job are donated? Do they hope people to lose their job?
Do workers losing their job have previous contacts with people in need? (E.g. workers in a supermarket with homlesses outside them)

Relevant the reason why workers lose their job? Inefficiency? Being late? Not working as they are suplosed to? Do they lose their job voluntarily (e.g. to donate more t shirts)? Do they lose their job permanently?

To be sure: does the relevant employees' work have mainly to do with the main activity of the firm where they worked at? (E.g. in health care --> they are doctors/physicians/pharmacists?) Or to some external activity entertained by the firm? (E.g. charity...) do these employees have mainly contacts with public? Work in a shop? Are the t shirts wore by any employee in the firm? Are the employees that lose their job substituted by others employees? Relevant? Do substitutes1 wear the same kind of t shirts?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:40 pm

Is there relevant text on the t-shirt? Yes
Relevant graphics? A relevant color? Is the t-shirt provided by the company? Bought by the employee? Given to the employee? None of this is relevant

Does the generous person look selfish by wearing the t-shirt? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:51 pm

Are the relevant t-shirts meant to be donated? Unknown, but assume not
If so, do employees know it as soon as they receive their job? As soon as they lose it? They probably don’t think about it
Are t-shirts wore at a daily basis by employees? By some, yes
If so inside the company? Mostly,yes
Could the same person be donated the same t-shirt twice? Not likely
Are the t-shirts enough to satisfy the need of anyone who have the same need? Not just these, no
If not, are t shirts donated following a certain criterion? Yes
Do other people in need ask for the t shirts? Possibly
If so, after having seen them wore by others? Unknown but possible, based on something the people have in common
Do people in need relevantly know/discovers that t-shirts of people losing their job are donated? It’s not likely that they realize the donors have lost jobs, but they know the clothes are donated by someone
Do they hope people to lose their job? No
Do workers losing their job have previous contacts with people in need? (E.g. workers in a supermarket with homlesses outside them) No, none

Relevant the reason why workers lose their job? Inefficiency? Being late? Not working as they are suplosed to? Do they lose their job voluntarily (e.g. to donate more t shirts)? Do they lose their job permanently? None of this is relevant

To be sure: does the relevant employees' work have mainly to do with the main activity of the firm where they worked at? (E.g. in health care --> they are doctors/physicians/pharmacists?) Or to some external activity entertained by the firm?
In some cases, yes. In the case of Health Care, a doctor would not wear this kind of shirt, it would be worn by a person who has a less primary job.
(E.g. charity...) do these employees have mainly contacts with public? Yes! For sure!
Work in a shop? Possibly
Are the t shirts wore by any employee in the firm?
No, not just anyone
Are the employees that lose their job substituted by others employees? Relevant? Not relevant
Do substitutes1 wear the same kind of t shirts?
Yes, a substitute or replacement would wear this same kind of shirt
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:28 pm

Does public relevantly includes also homeless and people that have needs?

Are the employees specifically asked to donate the shirts? If so before losing the job? Immediately after? After days?

Are donations done purposely by employees? Do they relevantly expect people in need to wear the t shirts? Is their contact to the public relevant? If so, because public can see the t shirts? Can recognize them?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:41 pm

Does public relevantly includes also homeless and people that have needs? Yes

Are the employees specifically asked to donate the shirts? If so before losing the job? Immediately after? After days? No, they just decide to do it

Are donations done purposely by employees? Yes
Do they relevantly expect people in need to wear the t shirts? They probably don’t think about it, for a relevant reason
Is their contact to the public relevant?
Yes If so, because public can see the t shirts? Can recognize them? Yes to both
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:11 pm

Is the usual public people in need? Do they know that such people have needs? That needs include having t shirts? Do they have contacts with them?

Contact with public = suggesting to public what to buy? Sell products? Help people in needs? Is there a contact with them? Or maybe they just receive orders? They advertise product of the firm? In the street? Try to convinve people to go inside a shop?

Do people having needs take the donation as an offense toward them? Do people having needs accept donations? Want them? Want such t shirts?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:19 am

Is the usual public people in need? No
Do they know that such people have needs?The need is known by some, but maybe not by the donors
That needs include having t shirts? Yes
Do they have contacts with them? The donors do not, no

Contact with public = suggesting to public what to buy? Sell products? In some cases yes
Help people in needs? Yed
Is there a contact with them? With who?
Or maybe they just receive orders? Not really
They advertise product of the firm? Not often, no
In the street? They may be seen here
Try to convinve people to go inside a shop? Possibly but not most common

Do people having needs take the donation as an offense toward them? Not at all
Do people having needs accept donations?
Want them? Want such t shirts? Yes to all
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:36 am

Do they (employees) have contacts with them? The donors do not, no
--> do someone else relevantly?

Ia the company aware of such donations? Encourage them? Contrast them? Try to have the t shirts back?

Are employees relevantly angry when losing job? Do they donate the t shirt for other reasons than charity? Do they simply throw/put in a box the t shirt and people in need come to take it? Writings on the t shirt: related to the company? Name of the donor? Some writing that make the t shirt unique? Something related to charity? Is there any relevant symbol? Of the company? Of associations? Of institutions external to the company?

Do people in needs wearing such t shirt receive less charity after having wore it? Would they wear such t shirts near the shops where employees losing the job worked? Are they confused with employees? Make indirect advertisement to the firm? Do people in need relevantly enter the place of work of employees? If so, before receiving the donation? After?

Do people in needs ask the ones losing job the t-shirts directly?

WAG --> the company wants the substitute to see homeless with the t shirts so that they can see what happens to people that does not his/her job inside the firm...kind of discouragement for unproductive people
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:31 pm

Do they (employees) have contacts with them? The donors do not, no
--> do someone else relevantly? Yes

Is the company aware of such donations? Encourage them? Contrast them? Try to have the t shirts back? None of these are relevant

Are employees relevantly angry when losing job? Not relevant
Do they donate the t shirt for other reasons than charity? There's a very good reason they donate the shirt...
Do they simply throw/put in a box the t shirt Yes, this is what they do
and people in need come to take it? Well someone does come to get the donated items, yes, but not the people who are directly in need of them
Writings on the t shirt: related to the company? Not directly related to any specific company, no
Name of the donor? No Some writing that make the t shirt unique? In one way it does, yes
Something related to charity? No
Is there any relevant symbol? Yes Of the company? Of associations? Of institutions external to the company? No to these

Do people in needs wearing such t shirt receive less charity after having wore it? No, probably the opposite Would they wear such t shirts near the shops where employees losing the job worked? No - good q
Are they confused with employees? YES, in some cases this is very possible
Make indirect advertisement to the firm? No Do people in need relevantly enter the place of work of employees? No, surely not If so, before receiving the donation? After?

Do people in needs ask the ones losing job the t-shirts directly? No

WAG --> the company wants the substitute to see homeless with the t shirts so that they can see what happens to people that does not his/her job inside the firm...kind of discouragement for unproductive people No but good guess
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:16 pm

There's a very good reason they donate the shirt... --> they want to put in their CV that they do charity? Which maybe is seen as a plus by employers ...
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:41 pm

There's a very good reason they donate the shirt... --> they want to put in their CV that they do charity? Which maybe is seen as a plus by employers? No, not related to this
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:09 pm

There's a very good reason they donate the shirt... --> do workers losing job benefit from that? If so, financially? By damaging someone else? Do they want people in need to be exchanged for workers in such companies? Would people in need wear such t shirts near other relevant companies? Concurrent companies?

Do they want to encourage people in need to come and take the t shirt from the box?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:13 pm

There's a very good reason they donate the shirt... --> do workers losing job benefit from that? No
If so, financially? By damaging someone else? No Do they want people in need to be exchanged for workers in such companies? No
Would people in need wear such t shirts near other relevant companies? Concurrent companies? Not very likely, no

Do they want to encourage people in need to come and take the t shirt from the box? The donors would be glad for such people to do this, but it is not possible for them to do so.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:09 pm

Do they give away the tshirts because they dislike them? They don't want to wear them? They're part of a uniform? They're uncomfortable? They have the company logo? Company colors?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:32 pm

Do they give away the tshirts because they dislike them? Probably not this
They don't want to wear them? Yes, for an obvious reason
They're part of a uniform? Not strictly speaking but could be considered this
They're uncomfortable? No, this isn't a problem
They have the company logo? Company colors? The shirts may include either or both of these but it's not relevant
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Earnest » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:51 am

There's a very good reason they donate the shirt... --> do someone benefit from that? Customers? People in need ( a part from the obvious reason of having one more t shirt)? Do people losing their job that other previously have donated t shirts to people in need? Do they know that there was a box for donations? Did they think that the box was for washing old clothes? Do they put the t shirt in the box immediately after having lost the job? Do they come back to the company on purpose to put the t shirt in the donation box?

So donors put the t-shirts on a box right? Then people in need receive the t shirt but without taking them directly fron the box, correct? Do other people (customers? Other workers? Collegues? Substitutes? Bosses?) give the t shirt to people in need? Do other people buy the t shirts and give them to people in need? Do former employees sell them? Are previous employees in need as well?

Do people in need receive the t shirt near the relevant shops? In random places?

Do people in need have relevant relationship with the company a part from receiving the t shirts? E.g. former workers? Workers? They help with parking/advertisement/others? Do people in need know that the t shirts have been donated? That the t shirts were for them? Do they know the donors? Do they ask for help? Do they manifest their needs? Is it obvious and appearent that they have needs? Are people in needs asked for info by customers of the companies when they are seen with the t shirts? Relevant? Do former employees want to avoid people to stop them and ask for info (e.g. where the company is) when wearing such t shirts?,
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:20 pm

There's a very good reason they donate the shirt... --> do someone benefit from that? Yes, but this is just part of the reason (see the last set of questions below)
Customers? No People in need ( a part from the obvious reason of having one more t shirt)? Yes
Do people losing their job that other previously have donated t shirts to people in need? Not relevant
Do they know that there was a box for donations? Yes Did they think that the box was for washing old clothes? No Do they put the t shirt in the box immediately after having lost the job? Probably, but doesn't have to be immediate Do they come back to the company on purpose to put the t shirt in the donation box? No, the places that these people worked probably does not have a donation box on site. The donors would need to go to a separate place to donate the shirts.

So donors put the t-shirts on a box right? Yes, or give it to someone who collects donated items
Then people in need receive the t shirt but without taking them directly from the box, correct? Yes
Do other people (customers? Other workers? Collegues? Substitutes? Bosses?) give the t shirt to people in need? Yes, either directly or indirectly Do other people buy the t shirts and give them to people in need? No
Do former employees sell them? Not relevant Are previous employees in need as well? No

Do people in need receive the t shirt near the relevant shops? No - good q In random places? Maybe, but the places would still have something very relevant in common

Do people in need have relevant relationship with the company a part from receiving the t shirts? No
E.g. former workers? Workers? They help with parking/advertisement/others? No, they have no connection at all
Do people in need know that the t shirts have been donated? Some of them might know this
That the t shirts were for them? Yes, they all know this Do they know the donors? No, not at all
Do they ask for help? Some of them might but they probably don't need to Do they manifest their needs? Yes Is it obvious and appearent that they have needs? Yes, very obvious

Are people in needs asked for info YES, this is very possible and likely! by customers of the companies No, not by these people when they are seen with the t shirts? YES Relevant? YES, very relevant
Do former employees want to avoid people to stop them and ask for info (e.g. where the company is) when wearing such t shirts? YES, this is why they give the shirts away!
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:27 pm

Do the recipients look rude and insensitive when they're mistaken for employees?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:50 pm

Do the recipients look rude and insensitive when they're mistaken for employees? Not exactly but you are very much OTRT. Keep in mind that the people who receive the shirts have no contact with the companies or places where the donors worked, and the recipients have no idea who the donors are.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:30 pm

Are they mistaken for something or someone else? For people who have jobs? Who are not poor? Not needy? Is the rudeness and insensitivity related to money? Are they considered rude when answering a question? When telling the truth?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:20 pm

Are they mistaken for something or someone else? Yes, this leads to the relevant action that makes them seem rude For people who have jobs? Maybe, but not always
Who are not poor? Not needy? Also possible in some instances (depending on other factors)
Is the rudeness and insensitivity related to money? No
Are they considered rude when answering a question? In some cases, yes When telling the truth? No
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:41 pm

Are they mistaken for employees? Former employees? For someone with specific knowledge? Specific skill? Relevant who makes this mistake? Where the mistake is made? When? Do they refuse a request that an actual employee could grant?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:00 pm

Are they mistaken for employees? Sometimes Former employees? Probably not
For someone with specific knowledge? Yes Specific skill? Yes, likely
Relevant who makes this mistake? Where the mistake is made? When? Yes to all
Do they refuse a request that an actual employee could grant? No, it's not likely they actually do this, but keep going with this line of questions...
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:08 am

Is the mistake made in a place where actual employees are likely to be present? Is the mistake made by a customer? A manager? Someone else in need? Does the person making the mistake ask for something? Expect something?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:42 pm

Is the mistake made in a place where actual employees are likely to be present? Not realistically, no
Is the mistake made by a customer? A manager? No to both Someone else in need? Yes, in need of something specific
Does the person making the mistake ask for something? Expect something? Yes to both
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:39 pm

RECAP

When certain types of workers lose their job(s), they may choose to donate T-shirts to charity. These are shirts that they wore while working at the place where they lost the job. The shirts are collected from donation centers and eventually given to people who need clothes. The people who end up receiving the clothes do not know the donors in any way, do not interact with them and probably don't know anything about the places where the people worked. The donors do not want the T-shirts after they lose their jobs because they do not want to be stopped and asked for information about the place they no longer work. The shirts may have company names and/or logos on them, but this isn't relevant. There is relevant writing and/or symbols on the shirts. It is possible that people who receive the shirts may be mistaken for employees of the same company as the donors, but this isn't what makes them appear rude. They are mistaken for someone with specific knowledge and/or a specific skill.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby biograd » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:01 pm

To clarify, we are talking about people who lost a *particular* job here? rather than just generally "people with all roles at any type of company who interact with the public" here, correct?

If so, is it most relevant for what purpose/in what context they interact with the public (e.g. sales and marketing, tech support, billing, etc.)? What economic sector of company they work in? What specific company they work for?

Do they not want to be asked about their former employment because:
-Their former employers have a bad/controversial public image?
-Their former companies are very desirable places to work, and they will get all sorts of people wanting to apply there?
-People might ask them to perform some aspects of their former work for free/for a discount (for example "I see you worked in tech support at a computer company. Could you help me get my printer working?!")?
-Their former jobs involved access to trade secrets that people want to steal?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:20 am

Does the writing say something about the job the employee had? A role they had? A responsibility? Is it one word?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:54 pm

To clarify, we are talking about people who lost a *particular* job here? A certain type of job, yes
rather than just generally "people with all roles at any type of company who interact with the public" here, correct? Correct

If so, is it most relevant for what purpose/in what context they interact with the public (e.g. sales and marketing, tech support, billing, etc.)? Yes, very much so
What economic sector of company they work in? What specific company they work for? Neither of these are really important

Do they not want to be asked about their former employment because:
-Their former employers have a bad/controversial public image? Possibly, but not the main reason
-Their former companies are very desirable places to work, and they will get all sorts of people wanting to apply there? No
-People might ask them to perform some aspects of their former work for free/for a discount (for example "I see you worked in tech support at a computer company. Could you help me get my printer working?!")? Not exactly but very much OTRT
-Their former jobs involved access to trade secrets that people want to steal? No

Does the writing say something about the job the employee had? In some cases it does, yes, but in other cases it is less specific A role they had? YES A responsibility? Yes, this too
Is it one word? Possibly, but doesn't have to be this.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:08 pm

Was the text originally meant to be seen by: the public? Company customers? Company employees? Does it say something like: customer service? Help? Information? Technician? Expert? Ask me? Ask me a anything?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:09 pm

Was the text originally meant to be seen by: the public? Company customers? Either of these, depending on where the donor worked
Company employees? No
Does it say something like: customer service? Maybe, but... Help? Information? ...THESE more likely... Technician? Expert? ...but not these.
Ask me? Ask me a anything? YES, both of these are very likely!
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby biograd » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:55 pm

So they provided some type of information to, and/or answered questions from, the public in their former employment? Questions about what to buy? about how to use a product? about how to subscribe to/sign up for a service?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:58 pm

So they provided some type of information to, and/or answered questions from, the public in their former employment?
Yes
Questions about what to buy? about how to use a product? about how to subscribe to/sign up for a service? It's not relevant to know exactly what kind of questions they answered, just to know that this was their role for the company, organization, etc.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby biograd » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:26 pm

So they simply answered questions from the public, in general, on behalf of some type of company? nothing more specific than that? and they give away the T-shirts because they don't want to continue to be asked the same questions?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:05 pm

So they simply answered questions from the public, in general, on behalf of some type of company? Yes, for a company, organization, civic group, agency, etc.
nothing more specific than that? That is all you need to know about the jobs that the donors had
and they give away the T-shirts because they don't want to continue to be asked the same questions? That's right

So it's just left to determine why the recipients of these shirts would appear insensitive or rude. Keep in mind that the people who receive the shirts know nothing about the places where the donors worked and they never meet the donors. The writing on the shirts is very relevant.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby biograd » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:28 am

Do the shirts make the recipients look as if they are marketers for the companies in question, trying to sell something? or recruiters, looking to hire?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:05 pm

Do the shirts make the recipients look as if they are marketers for the companies in question, trying to sell something? or recruiters, looking to hire? Not either of these, minor FA about the shirts is lurking
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby biograd » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:24 pm

Maybe the shirts don't mention the name of the company (or organization)? but just say something like "If you have any questions, ask me"? and people who wear it would seem like "know-it-alls"?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:39 pm

Maybe the shirts don't mention the name of the company (or organization)? They might, but that isn't relevant
but just say something like "If you have any questions, ask me"? Yes! Something to this effect!
and people who wear it would seem like "know-it-alls"? No, not know-it-alls, but they would seem to be another kind of insensitive, rude, annoying person...
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:55 pm

HINT 1: All of the people who get the shirts have one very important thing in common

HINT 2: The message on the shirt and the response by the person wearing it are directly related
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby irishelk » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:48 pm

Is the thing the people who get the shirts have in common related to the reason they are getting shirts? Are they relevantly jobless? Homeless? Impoverished? Immigrants? Children? Victims of a crime? Doing messy/dirty work? Volunteering?

Do the recipients have a relevant disability in common? For example, their shirts say Ask Me Anything, but they are deaf and often do not notice someone asking them something?

Have the recipients of shirts been displaced from their homes? Moved to a different location? Maybe people are asking them for directions, but they don't know the area?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:37 pm

Is the thing the people who get the shirts have in common related to the reason they are getting shirts? Partly, yes, but there is a basic and very relevant other thing about all of them
Are they relevantly jobless? Homeless? Impoverished? This, yes, and... Immigrants? Children? ...many are this, yes.
Victims of a crime? Doing messy/dirty work? Volunteering? None of these

Do the recipients have a relevant disability in common? No
For example, their shirts say Ask Me Anything, but they are deaf and often do not notice someone asking them something? They aren't deaf, but you are OTRT in a way here...

Have the recipients of shirts been displaced from their homes? No, not at all Moved to a different location? No
Maybe people are asking them for directions, but they don't know the area? The recipients of the shirts know the area well, and would probably be glad to help anyone who asks, if only...
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby irishelk » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:24 pm

Do the people wearing the shirts not speak English (or the language of the area)? Do they not speak at all? If so, for religious reasons? Medical reasons? To make a political/moral point? Because they are too young to talk? Are they asked to not speak on certain topics?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:25 pm

Do the people wearing the shirts not speak English (or the language of the area)? They do NOT speak English, and this is very relevant! They speak the language of the area in which they live, but NOT the language that appears on the shirts in written form.
Do they not speak at all? They do speak, and they do something else very relevant...
If so, for religious reasons? Medical reasons? To make a political/moral point? Because they are too young to talk? Are they asked to not speak on certain topics? None of this applies

Nearly done! Remember that the recipients of the clothes are often children, and that the writing and/or symbols on the donated clothing is relevant.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Balin » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:18 pm

Does this have anything to do with the mass donation of losing teams' championship shirts?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:49 pm

Does this have anything to do with the mass donation of losing teams' championship shirts? No, but the same type of scenario could occur with this kind of shirt. The solution here has to do with people who have T-shirts with words like "Can I Help You?" or "Ask Me For Assistance" printed on them
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby Hobbsicle » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:56 am

So these shirts make it out of their usual areas either to other countries or to places where people generally do not speak English? Do tourists or visitors ask these people for directions/assistance, on account of their shirts, thinking they are there to help, and get ignored, for lack of understanding?
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:11 pm

So these shirts make it out of their usual areas either to other countries or to places where people generally do not speak English? Yes, in this case the shirts are donated to people in need who live in areas where the English language is almost never spoken (in some cases it's never been spoken), but it has been seen in writing

Do tourists or visitors ask these people for directions/assistance, on account of their shirts, thinking they are there to help, and get ignored, for lack of understanding? Yes, this is the relevant scenario. The relevant response is not that the people wearing the shirts simply ignore the people asking for help, but they do something else that would be considered quite rude and insensitive. That's the key to solving the puzzle.
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Re: [CoffeeBean] At The Misfortune Of Others, No. 2 [DONATED

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:00 pm

SPOILER

In some foreign countries, residents of very poor areas receive aid in the manner of donated clothing. Some of the clothing comes from English speaking countries, and is given to people in remote areas who have never met anyone who speaks English. Some of these people, especially young adults and children, think that English (Roman) letters look funny, and that the language sounds funny. A friend of mine once visited a remote area of Asia, and said that some children were wearing shirts with English words written on the shirts. When my friend and some others attempted to speak to the local people in English, the children began laughing when they heard people speaking English. My friend pointed to a shirt being worn by a local child with English letters on it, and the child laughed as my friend said the words aloud. So if one or more people in one of these remote areas received a "Can I Help You?" or "Ask Me For Help" shirt donated by someone who lost his/her job as an assistant or information provider, this person would appear to be a source of help to a foreigner. But since some people in these areas think the English language looks and sounds funny, it would be possible that when a person asked for help in English, they would get a response of laughter, which would seem very rude and insensitive.
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