[Westing1992] Ascenseur

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[Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:33 pm

By showing that he was innocent of murder, she unintentionally made him be found guilty of murder.
(He=him=H/A/M. She=H/A/F)
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:46 pm

He: H?A?M?
She: H?A?F?
Were they related? Was she a police officer? Attorney? Judge?
Is murder1 the same situation as murder2? Was he guilty of murder1? of murder2?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:53 pm

He: H?A?M? Yes.
She: H?A?F? Yes.
Were they related? DOYD of 'related'.Was she a police officer? Attorney? Judge? None of these.
Is murder1 the same situation as murder2? No. Was he guilty of murder1? No. of murder2? Yes.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Alhucema » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:56 pm

Elevator relevant?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:33 pm

Elevator relevant? Tangentially, but it's not the main focus of the puzzle. This was based off a movie, so the exact circumstances surrounding it have some details that aren't strictly relevant; it may help to figure them out to provide context, but it's not necessary.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:39 pm

Did the two murders take place at the same time? Victims relevant? Murder methods relevant?
Did she provide his alibi?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:54 pm

Did the two murders take place at the same time? Not quite, but OTRT. Victims relevant? For Murder 2, yes (the one he actually committed). Murder methods relevant? In a roundabout way, yes.
Did she provide his alibi? No, but again, OTRT.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby GalFisk » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:14 pm

Did murder 1 actually happen? Was murder 2 unsolved at the time? Was someone else suspected for murder 2? Was murder 2 not discovered?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:14 pm

Did murder 1 actually happen? Yes (but not by him).
Was murder 2 unsolved at the time? Was someone else suspected for murder 2? Was murder 2 not discovered? None of these, but OTRT with this line of questioning.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby gregoryuconn » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:00 am

Was she his lawyer for murder 1? Did the cops know all along he didn't commit murder 1 and hope his alibi for it proved he was guilty of murder 2 but they knew he wouldn't talk if they directly accused him of it?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:24 am

Is her profession relevant? When she proved him innocent of murder1, did she act within her professional capacity? When she showed him guilty of murder2, did she act within her professional capacity?
Was she a victim of either murder 1 or murder 2?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:06 pm

Was she his lawyer for murder 1? No. Did the cops know all along he didn't commit murder 1 and hope his alibi for it proved he was guilty of murder 2 but they knew he wouldn't talk if they directly accused him of it? No; the cops thought he committed murder 1.

Is her profession relevant? No. When she proved him innocent of murder1, did she act within her professional capacity? When she showed him guilty of murder2, did she act within her professional capacity? So none of this.
Was she a victim of either murder 1 or murder 2? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:32 pm

Did murder 1 take place before murder 2? After?
Is the actual culprit of murder 1 relevant? Did she commit murder 1?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:12 pm

Did the cops know that murder 2 had been committed at the time they accused him of murder 1? Did the cops get to know about murder 1 when they checked the proof of his innocence on murder 1?
Did she give him alibi? Did she know who committed murder 1? Did she have a material proof of who committed murder 1?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby gregoryuconn » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:40 am

If she did give him an alibi, did that prove he committed murder 2? Or at least that he was there when it was committed? Or did it simply provide a motive, like maybe he was in the middle of catching his wife with another man, who was subsequently murdered? If so, was she his wife? Can we call her Gertrude and him Bob?

So Gertrude is sort of related to Bob, DOYD.... Is she his client? His patient (like if he's a doctor)? His co-worker? His friend? His "friend"? His mistress? Is Bob's profession relevant? Is Gertrude his ex-wife? Ex-other relative?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:53 am

Did murder 1 take place before murder 2? After? After.
Is the actual culprit of murder 1 relevant? Yes, in that something that murderer 1 did caused the police to suspect murderer 2. Did she commit murder 1? No.

Did the cops know that murder 2 had been committed at the time they accused him of murder 1? Yes, with a slight FA. Did the cops get to know about murder 1 when they checked the proof of his innocence on murder 1? I assume you meant if they knew about murder 2; the answer is yope with the same FA.
Did she give him alibi? No. Did she know who committed murder 1? Yes. Did she have a material proof of who committed murder 1? Yes.

If she did give him an alibi, did that prove he committed murder 2? Or at least that he was there when it was committed? No. Or did it simply provide a motive, like maybe he was in the middle of catching his wife with another man, who was subsequently murdered? Yes, but not this. If so, was she his wife? No. Can we call her Gertrude and him Bob? Sure; we can call Murderer 1 Jack as well.

So Gertrude is sort of related to Bob, DOYD.... Is she his client? His patient (like if he's a doctor)? His co-worker? His friend? His "friend"? His mistress? THIS.
Is Bob's profession relevant? Not precisely; his work is relevant, but what that work is exactly (beyond being white-collar) is not.
Is Gertrude his ex-wife? Ex-other relative? Neither.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:31 pm

You said the second victim was relevant? Is the second victim someone Bob knows? Is related to? Someone Gertrude knows? Is related to? Bob's wife?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:06 pm

Did Gertrude have to tell the police about her relationship with Bob in order to prove him innocent of murder 1?
The material evidence of murder 1 in her possession: footprints? fingerprints? clothes? weapon?
Did Gertrude, by proving Bob innocent of murder 1, prove Jack guilty of it?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:17 pm

You said the second victim was relevant? Is the second victim someone Bob knows? Yes. Is related to? No. Someone Gertrude knows? Is related to? Yes and Yes. Bob's wife? No...

Did Gertrude have to tell the police about her relationship with Bob in order to prove him innocent of murder 1? No, but the police discovering their relationship is what made him be found guilty.
The material evidence of murder 1 in her possession: footprints? fingerprints? clothes? weapon? None of these; and also, the evidence wasn't initially in her possession; she had to seek it out.
Did Gertrude, by proving Bob innocent of murder 1, prove Jack guilty of it? Yes.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:37 pm

Victim 2: Gertrude's husband? One of her family members? Parent? Sibling? Child?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:26 pm

Material evidence: DNA? Hair? Blood? Another body liquid? A document?
Did Bob know about the evidence? Is it relevant how Gertrude knew?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:47 pm

Victim 2: Gertrude's husband? This. One of her family members? Parent? Sibling? Child?

Material evidence: DNA? Hair? Blood? Another body liquid? A document? Document is closest, but not it.
Did Bob know about the evidence? For Murder 1? No. Is it relevant how Gertrude knew? She didn't know it existed for sure; she suspected Jack first and then found the evidence afterwards.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:35 am

So: Bob killed Gertrude's husband before Jack killed someone else. Cops suspected Bob of having committed Jack's crime. Gertrude suspected Jack and found evidence, that proved Jack guilty (thus proving Bob innocent). But the evidence made the cops further explore the relation between Bob and Gertrude. This revealed Bob's motive for killing Gertrude's husband, leading to Bob being accused and found guilty. All correct?
Did Jack write his murderous plan somewhere? Did he write a diary? Is Jack's murder method relevant?
Is it relevant why police suspected Bob of having committed Jack's crime? Is Bob's murder method relevant?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby biograd » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:04 pm

Was the evidence some sort of business record (for example, list of customers at a certain restaurant or store, a list of passengers on a form of public transit that required ID, etc.)? video from a security camera?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:16 pm

So: Bob killed Gertrude's husband before Jack killed someone else. Cops suspected Bob of having committed Jack's crime. Gertrude suspected Jack and found evidence, that proved Jack guilty (thus proving Bob innocent). But the evidence made the cops further explore the relation between Bob and Gertrude. This revealed Bob's motive for killing Gertrude's husband, leading to Bob being accused and found guilty. All correct? Yes.
Did Jack write his murderous plan somewhere? Did he write a diary? Neither. Is Jack's murder method relevant? Somewhat.
Is it relevant why police suspected Bob of having committed Jack's crime? YES! Is Bob's murder method relevant? Yes.

Was the evidence some sort of business record (for example, list of customers at a certain restaurant or store, a list of passengers on a form of public transit that required ID, etc.)? video from a security camera? Neither, but OTRT.

I'm going to clear something up: it could be said that there are actually two pieces of evidence (one for each murder) that are of the same type. When Gertrude presented one piece, she inadvertently revealed the other.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:06 pm

Was the evidence something intimate of Bob's? Something Gertrude acquired during one of their trysts? Something he left behind at one of their trysts?
Murder method: shot? Stabbed? Impaled? Crushed? Blunt force? Strangled? Electrocuted? Drowned? Poisoned? Asphyxiated?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:07 pm

Was the evidence something intimate of Bob's? Something Gertrude acquired during one of their trysts? Something he left behind at one of their trysts? None of these (though it's along those lines).
Murder method: shot? This, for both. Stabbed? Impaled? Crushed? Blunt force? Strangled? Electrocuted? Drowned? Poisoned? Asphyxiated?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:48 pm

Was the evidence something belonging to Bob? Gertrude? Gertrude's husband? Jack? Jack's victim?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:58 pm

Was the evidence something belonging to Bob? This, mainly Gertrude? Gertrude's husband? Jack? But it could also be said to be this. Jack's victim?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:42 pm

Are Bob and Jack related? Do they know each other? Do they look alike? Do they have something relevant in common?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:51 pm

Are Bob and Jack related? Do they know each other? Do they look alike? No to all. Do they have something relevant in common? In a way (but not in the way it's usually meant).
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:40 pm

Does Jack also have a relationship with Gertrude? Did the police relevantly confuse Bob and Jack (besides of having accused Bob for Jack's crime)?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:16 am

Does Jack also have a relationship with Gertrude? No. Did the police relevantly confuse Bob and Jack (besides of having accused Bob for Jack's crime)? Kind of, I guess?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:38 pm

Do the police think that Bob is Jack? That Jack is Bob?
Is Jack related to anyone else in the puzzle?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:56 pm

Do the police think that Bob is Jack? That Jack is Bob? They thought Bob committed Jack's murder, and there's a certain reason they thought that.
Is Jack related to anyone else in the puzzle? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:57 pm

Did Bob have motive for killing Jack's victim? Were Bob's belongings found at the place of Jack's crime?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:32 am

Did Bob have motive for killing Jack's victim? No. Were Bob's belongings found at the place of Jack's crime? Yes!
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:17 am

Did Jack commit his crime in Bob's house? Gertrude's? Where Bob and Gertrude had their trysts?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:59 pm

Did Jack commit his crime in Bob's house? Gertrude's? Where Bob and Gertrude had their trysts? No to all.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:57 pm

Is it relevant what exactly (of Bob's belongings) was found at the place of Jack's crime? Is it relevant why it was found there? Was Jack framing Bob? Or Gertrude? Was the victim an acquaintance of both Bob and Jack?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:07 am

Is it relevant what exactly (of Bob's belongings) was found at the place of Jack's crime? Yes. Is it relevant why it was found there? Yes. Was Jack framing Bob? Or Gertrude? Neither. Was the victim an acquaintance of both Bob and Jack? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:42 am

Was the belonging of Bob's an ID of some sort? A phone? An article of clothing?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:47 pm

Was the belonging of Bob's an ID of some sort? A phone? An article of clothing? No to all; this line of questioning had a slight FA.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:08 pm

Did the belonging actually belong to Bob?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:00 pm

Did the belonging actually belong to Bob? No; that's not the FA.

Edit: I misread the question. The item DID belong to Bob; the false assumption I'm referring to is that there was more than one of Bob's possessions at the scene of Jack's crime.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:20 pm

Did Jack commit murder in Bob's house? Or Bob's car? Another place full of Bob's stuff?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:21 pm

Did Jack commit murder in Bob's house? Or Bob's car? Bob's car was involved, but it wasn't the murder location. Good question! Another place full of Bob's stuff?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:28 am

Was Bob's car at the scene of the crime? Somewhere else relevant?
Did Gertrude's statement lead to the police examining Bob's car?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:03 am

Was Bob's car at the scene of the crime? Yes! Somewhere else relevant?
Did Gertrude's statement lead to the police examining Bob's car? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:32 am

Was Bob's car used in Jack's crime? In Bob's crime?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:57 pm

Did Jack hit the victim with Bob's car?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:52 pm

Was Bob's car used in Jack's crime? Not directly. In Bob's crime? No.

Did Jack hit the victim with Bob's car? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:06 pm

Was the crime committed at the car parking? In the garage? Did Bob's car belong to Bob at the time of Jack's crime? Or did Bob buy it later?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:02 pm

Was the crime committed at the car parking? In the garage? Irr. Did Bob's car belong to Bob at the time of Jack's crime? Yes. Or did Bob buy it later?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:59 pm

Is the type of car relevant?
Did Jack ever use Bob's car? Did he enter it? Drive it?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:57 am

Is the type of car relevant? No.
Did Jack ever use Bob's car? Did he enter it? Drive it? Yes to all.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:28 pm

Did Jack use Bob's car with Bob's consent? Did he steal it? Was it a car that both Jack and Bob were able to use (company car, for example)?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:25 am

Did Jack use Bob's car with Bob's consent? No. Did he steal it? Yes! Was it a car that both Jack and Bob were able to use (company car, for example)? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:22 pm

Relevant where Bob's car was when Jack stole it? Was it at Gertrude's?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:40 pm

Are street surveillance cameras relevant? Did Jack return stolen car to Bob after having committed his crime? Did Jack leave the car somewhere to be found and returned to Bob?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:25 pm

Relevant where Bob's car was when Jack stole it? Was it at Gertrude's? No to both.

Are street surveillance cameras relevant? Did Jack return stolen car to Bob after having committed his crime? Did Jack leave the car somewhere to be found and returned to Bob? No to all.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:17 am

Did Jack use Bob's car to transport his victim? Did he do anything with Bob's car other than steal it and drive it to his crime scene?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:11 pm

Did Jack use Bob's car to transport his victim? No. Did he do anything with Bob's car other than steal it and drive it to his crime scene? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:31 pm

Recap: Jack steals Bob's car, then commits a murder, leaving the car (and Bob's gun, which was in the car) behind. This, naturally, causes the police to suspect Bob. Gertrude, who was having an affair with Bob, comes to his rescue, finding evidence showing Jack was the one who committed the murder. However, the evidence also revealed the affair, leading the police to realize that Bob had killed Gertrude's husband.

There are a few pieces of information here that haven't come out during questioning; I hope they are able to point you in the right direction.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:14 pm

Did Jack use Bob's gun to commit his murder? Another gun?
Did Bob use his own gun to commit his murder?
Was the evidence Gertrude found also in the car?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:49 pm

Were there relevant Gertrude's belongings in the car? Was the evidence of Jack's crime simply finding the car?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:02 pm

Did Jack use Bob's gun to commit his murder? Yes. Another gun?
Did Bob use his own gun to commit his murder? No.
Was the evidence Gertrude found also in the car? Not quite.

Were there relevant Gertrude's belongings in the car? No. Was the evidence of Jack's crime simply finding the car? You mean, evidence that he, not Bob, committed it? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:27 pm

Was the evidence Gertrude found related to the gun?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:53 pm

Was the evidence Gertrude found related to the gun? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:04 am

Was the evidence Gertrude found outside the car? Attached to the car? Was it the car itself?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:47 pm

Was the evidence Gertrude found outside the car? Attached to the car? Was it the car itself? It was found outside the car (though not in the immediate area).
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:06 pm

Was it found near the scene of Jack's murder? Near the scene of Bob's murder? Near Jack's house? Bob's house? Gertrude's house?
Relevant where B&G were having their affair?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:58 am

Was it found near the scene of Jack's murder? Near the scene of Bob's murder? Near Jack's house? This. Bob's house? Gertrude's house?
Relevant where B&G were having their affair? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:03 am

Did the evidence have Bob's name on it? Was it involved with Bob's work in some way?
Does Jack know anyone else in this puzzle?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:14 am

Did the evidence have Bob's name on it? No; better! Was it involved with Bob's work in some way? No.
Does Jack know anyone else in this puzzle? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:02 pm

Does the evidence have a picture of Bob on it? Bob's fingerprints? Bob's DNA?
Do Jack and Bob resemble each other?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:41 pm

Does the evidence have a picture of Bob on it? YES! Bob's fingerprints? Bob's DNA? No to the rest (or at least irrelevant).
Do Jack and Bob resemble each other? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:31 pm

Is the evidence a form of ID? Is it something related to his car? The registration?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:26 pm

Is the evidence a form of ID? Is it something related to his car? The registration? None of these.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:48 pm

Is the evidence just that – a picture of Bob?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:43 pm

Is the evidence just that – a picture of Bob? There's a bit more of it than that.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:46 pm

Is the picture a photograph? Was it given as a gift? Was it from a certain event? Taken at a certain place? At a certain time? Did it show Bob doing something relevant? Killing Gertrude's husband?
Was the photograph in Jack's possession? Bob's? Gertrude's? Was it in Bob's car?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:19 pm

Is the picture a photograph? Yes. Was it given as a gift? No. Was it from a certain event? For SVV of 'event', yes. Taken at a certain place? At a certain time? The exact time and place the photo was taken is irrelevant; what matters is what it depicts. Did it show Bob doing something relevant? Sort of. Killing Gertrude's husband? But not this.
Was the photograph in Jack's possession? Yes! Bob's? Gertrude's? Was it in Bob's car? It had been, before Jack stole it...
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:31 am

Was Bob the only one in the photograph? Was Gertrude in it? Gertrude's husband? Jack? Jack's victim? Anyone else?
Was Jack trying to impersonate Bob when committing his crime?
Was the photo on Jack when he was caught? Was Jack caught?
Did Jack steal the photo a long time before committing the murder? Just before? During the act? Just after? A while after?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:18 am

Was Bob the only one in the photograph? No! Was Gertrude in it? Yes! Gertrude's husband? Jack? Not in the same photo, but... Jack's victim? Anyone else? No one else relevant.
Was Jack trying to impersonate Bob when committing his crime? No.
Was the photo on Jack when he was caught? Yope. Was Jack caught? Yes.
Did Jack steal the photo a long time before committing the murder? Just before? During the act? Just after? A while after? He stole it at the same time he stole Bob's car.

There's a bit of a FA about the nature of the photos, though...
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:41 pm

Was there more than one photo?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:21 am

Was there more than one photo? Yes! But even then there's a FA...
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:46 pm

Was the picture a photograph? Was it Photoshopped in any way? Was it a painting? A sketch?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:43 pm

Was the picture a photograph? Yes. Was it Photoshopped in any way? Was it a painting? A sketch? None to the rest.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:56 am

Is it the photograph of speed control camera? Was it sent by the police (or other traffic authority) to the car owner?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:05 pm

Is it the photograph of speed control camera? Was it sent by the police (or other traffic authority) to the car owner?
No to both.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:56 pm

Relevant who took the photo?

Requesting another recap please?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:04 pm

Relevant who took the photo? Yes; there were two photos, and a different person took them each time.

Requesting another recap please?

Jack steals Bob's car, then commits a murder, leaving the car (and Bob's gun, which was in the car) behind. This, naturally, causes the police to suspect Bob. Gertrude, who was having an affair with Bob, comes to his rescue, finding a photo that showed (circumstantially) that Jack was the one who committed the murder. However, a second photo, revealed along with the first, gave away the affair, leading the police to realize that Bob had killed Gertrude's husband.

What to find now: the exact circumstances of how the photos were taken, and why the second photo was revealed along with the first.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:02 pm

Did the first photo show Jack in Bob's car?
Did Bob keep the photos in his car? In something else he kept in his car? In his wallet?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:43 pm

Did the first photo show Jack in Bob's car? Possibly, but irrelevant.
Did Bob keep the photos in his car? In something else he kept in his car? This, to a certain extent. (Not in the way you would think!) In his wallet?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby RedWine » Sun May 01, 2016 6:31 pm

Did Bob know about these photos being in the car? Did he receive them by mail?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun May 01, 2016 8:16 pm

Did Bob know about these photos being in the car? He knew about the second photo, showing his affair. Did he receive them by mail? No.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sat May 07, 2016 8:31 pm

Hint: The photographer of the first photo was Jack; the photographer of the second was either Bob or Gertrude.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Sun May 08, 2016 1:22 pm

Was either photo a selfie? Was either photo taken looking into a mirror? Were both photos taken intentionally? Were the photos taken using a camera? A phone? A computer? Something else?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Sun May 08, 2016 5:08 pm

Was either photo a selfie? Both were. Was either photo taken looking into a mirror? No/irrelevant. Were both photos taken intentionally? Yes. Were the photos taken using a camera? This! A phone? A computer? Something else?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Tue May 10, 2016 3:20 pm

Was something relevant in the background of either photo? Was Bob or Gertrude in the background of the second photo? Something else that showed they were having an affair?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Tue May 10, 2016 10:55 pm

Was something relevant in the background of either photo? No. Was Bob or Gertrude in the background of the second photo? Something else that showed they were having an affair? They were together, acting like a couple; the exact nature of the photo beyond that is irrelevant.
Last edited by Westing1992 on Thu May 12, 2016 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Wed May 11, 2016 11:28 am

Were the photos taken using the same camera? Did Gertrude bring the police the entire camera? To show them Jack's photo? And the police flipped through and found Bob & Gertrude's photo?
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Westing1992 » Thu May 12, 2016 12:30 pm

Were the photos taken using the same camera? Yes! Did Gertrude bring the police the entire camera? To show them Jack's photo? And the police flipped through and found Bob & Gertrude's photo? Not quite, but close enough for a

***SPOILER***
This puzzle was based on the French film Elevator to the Gallows. In it, a man (Bob in the puzzle) is having an affair with his boss's wife (Gertrude). He kills her husband and makes it look like a suicide, but when leaving the office building, he gets stuck in the elevator (hence the title). While there, his car gets stolen by a thief (Jack), along with his gun and camera, which were inside. Jack takes a photo of himself, then drives the car to a place and shoots someone with Bob's gun. He takes the camera but leaves the car and gun behind. Since those two items are Bob's, and he doesn't have an alibi (because he was stuck in the elevator at the time) so is the prime suspect. Gertrude, however, locates Jack and recovers the camera, taking the film to be developed to show that Jack had stolen the camera, along with the car and gun. However, the roll of film also contained photos of Bob and Gertrude together, making the police look into their relationship and re-examine the boss's death as a murder.

Thanks to everyone who participated, in particular Balin, who kept the puzzle going through a dearth of questions.
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Re: [Westing1992] Ascenseur

Postby Balin » Thu May 12, 2016 12:32 pm

I enjoyed this one!
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