[Balin] Early Sunday morning

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[Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Balin » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:58 pm

Detective Dexter prevented a crime because he went to church early and the would-be criminal wanted to remain anonymous. How?
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby gregoryuconn » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:07 pm

Would the crime have taken place in the church? Near the church? Before church services? During church services? After church services? Or was he even going to services at all? Or was it Bingo, a pancake dinner, a board meeting, or something like that?

In addition to being a detective, does Dexter have a relevant role in the church? Deacon? Board member? Lay leader? Part-time minister? President? I don't know much about church roles, so maybe these are way off or not possible the way they're structured.

Would this work with a synagogue? A mosque? A Hindu house of worship? A meeting of atheists?
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:34 am

Would Dexter have seen the criminal? Known him? Recognized him? Does the church have anything to do with the contemplated crime? or with either Dexter or the criminal?

Would the crime occur in the church? On its grounds? Would the criminal pass through?

Is the criminal's anonymity related to his crime, or to something else? Does he not want to be recognized whilst committing it? If so, could anyone other than Dexter have recognized him? Or did Dexter do something that made the criminal less anonymous? More likely to be recognized?
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Earnest » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:49 am

Can we call the would be criminal Miguel? Assuming so, was Miguel inside the church with Dexter? If so, did Miguel know that Dexter was inside the church? Did D arrive relevantly before M? Early = early in the morning? On a Sunday? Before a mass? Before a wedding? Before a funeral? Early with respect to a celebration?
Was there an appointment at the church? A celebration? Relevant? Was Miguel related to the church? E.g. a priest? Are prayers relevant?
Did D enter inside the Church?

Did M want to stay anonymous to prevent someone to discover his illegal activities? To hide hikself? To have access to something? Was it the first time that M wanted to stay anonymous? Manifested his will to stay so? The fact that M wanted to stay anonymous concretised in: an epitaph/ a writing? Words inside a prayer? M being called with a generic name (e.g. son, brother, with another name, others?)? M going to church earlier than other faithful people (in order not to be recognised/remain anonymous)?

Was M a criminal? Did D go to church early on purpose? Did he suspect that a crime would have been committed?

Crime prevented: theft? Murder? Frode? Not paying a fine? A street crime? Drug? Alchol? Against the church or someone related to it (e.g. stealing the churche's money)?

Confession relevant? (E.g. Miguel confessed that he wanted to commit a crime? Miguel confessed something embarassing and wanted to remain anonymous hence stopping inside the confessional?) Was him the only one who wanted to remain anonymous? Was there someone else repevantly inside the church? Are donations relevant? Did M want to remain anonymous after a relevant action? An embarassing one?
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Balin » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:11 pm

Would the crime have taken place in the church? Near the church? Neither
Before church services? During church services? After church services? This
Or was he even going to services at all? Yes Or was it Bingo, a pancake dinner, a board meeting, or something like that?

In addition to being a detective, does Dexter have a relevant role in the church? No, he just attends Deacon? Board member? Lay leader? Part-time minister? President? I don't know much about church roles, so maybe these are way off or not possible the way they're structured. They're not far off, though churches usually don't have presidents. Regardless, assume Dexter is just an attendee.

Would this work with a synagogue? A mosque? A Hindu house of worship? I don't know much about these, so I can't say for sure A meeting of atheists? Probably not

Would Dexter have seen the criminal? Yes Known him? Probably Recognized him? Yes Does the church have anything to do with the contemplated crime? No or with either Dexter or the criminal? Yes and Yes

Would the crime occur in the church? On its grounds? Neither Would the criminal pass through? Not as part of the crime

Is the criminal's anonymity related to his crime, or to something else? It's related Does he not want to be recognized whilst committing it? That's not the anonymity part If so, could anyone other than Dexter have recognized him? Or did Dexter do something that made the criminal less anonymous? Noish More likely to be recognized? Noish

Can we call the would be criminal Miguel? Yes Assuming so, was Miguel inside the church with Dexter? Yes If so, did Miguel know that Dexter was inside the church? Yes Did D arrive relevantly before M? He did not
Early = early in the morning? Yes On a Sunday? Yes Before a mass? Church services are relevant Before a wedding? Before a funeral? Early with respect to a celebration? No to these
Was there an appointment at the church? A celebration? Neither, unless one considers services a celebration Relevant? See above Was Miguel related to the church? He was involved, Yes E.g. a priest? No Are prayers relevant? Yes
Did D enter inside the Church?

Did M want to stay anonymous to prevent someone to discover his illegal activities? Yes To hide hikself? Yes To have access to something? No Was it the first time that M wanted to stay anonymous? Yes, relevantly Manifested his will to stay so?
The fact that M wanted to stay anonymous concretised in: an epitaph/ No a writing? Yes Words inside a prayer? Yes M being called with a generic name (e.g. son, brother, with another name, others?)? No M going to church earlier than other faithful people (in order not to be recognised/remain anonymous)? Noish

Was M a criminal? Not yet Did D go to church early on purpose? Yes Did he suspect that a crime would have been committed? No

Crime prevented: theft? Murder? This Frode? Not paying a fine? A street crime? Drug? Alchol? Against the church or someone related to it (e.g. stealing the churche's money)? Not directly

Confession relevant? Not exactly, but OTRT (E.g. Miguel confessed that he wanted to commit a crime? Again, OTRT Miguel confessed something embarassing and wanted to remain anonymous hence stopping inside the confessional?) No - confessionals are not relevant Was him the only one who wanted to remain anonymous? Yes Was there someone else repevantly inside the church? Yes, but there were lots of people inside the church Are donations relevant? No Did M want to remain anonymous after a relevant action? Noish An embarassing one? No
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Earnest » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:39 am

Did the criminal want to stay anonymous after a relevant action? Did someone else perform the same action? If so did he/she stay anonymous as well? Has people performing such action the faculty to decide to stay anonymous ?
Action = light up a candle after a donation? Take a specific seat?

In order to stay anonymous did the criminal cover his face? Act hiddenly? Wear a costume? Act before the mass?

Was the criminal involved in the activities of the church (e.g. he was an altar boy?)? Relevant?

Murder = of a specific person? Of everyone in the church (explosion)? Others?

Murder that would have been committed with a weapon? A knife? With a venom? Is wine relevant? Host?

Would the possible crime be committed in the middle of the mass in the intention of the would be criminal? To be sure: did the would be criminal want to commit the crime? Is he aware to be committing a crime? (E.g. he wanted to ring the bells and this would have somehow killed someone)
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Balin » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:53 pm

Did the criminal want to stay anonymous after a relevant action? Not "after" Did someone else perform the same action? I'm going to say Yes If so did he/she stay anonymous as well? No Has people performing such action the faculty to decide to stay anonymous? Yes, but not in the same way
Action = light up a candle after a donation? Take a specific seat? Neither

In order to stay anonymous did the criminal cover his face? Act hiddenly? Wear a costume? Not these Act before the mass? He did something before the service, Yes

Was the criminal involved in the activities of the church Yes (e.g. he was an altar boy?)? But not this Relevant? Yes

Murder = of a specific person? Yes, but it doesn't matter who the intended victim was Of everyone in the church (explosion)? No Others? See above

Murder that would have been committed with a weapon? Exact murder method is irrel A knife? With a venom? Is wine relevant? Host?

Would the possible crime be committed in the middle of the mass in the intention of the would be criminal? No To be sure: did the would be criminal want to commit the crime? Yes Is he aware to be committing a crime? He didn't actually commit it, but he knew that what he wanted to do was a crime (E.g. he wanted to ring the bells and this would have somehow killed someone) No
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Earnest » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:21 am

To be sure: can we assume Catholic Church?
Relevant a part of the church? E.g. plates? Altar? Organs? Bells? Rosary relevant?

Are flours relevant? Anonymous = he did not want his name to appear somewhere relevantly? He send an anonymous letter? Did he pull a curtain? Change the microphone's tone? Change the order of speakers? Talk to the priest? Did M relevantly speak/talk with someone (with God?)? Pray? Fake to pray (e.g. he was communicating with someone but masked the whole scene as a prayer)? Is Bible relevant? Is the would be murderer the only one that would have wanted to stay anonymous?


Did Dexter have clues leading him to the church? If so, were such clues related to M? To M's will to stay anonymous?

Was M involved in the church as a faithful? Or maybe related to it because he did restoration works/something else related to the church? A painter? (e.g. she depicted a murder scene without signing his paint, which he usually did) Did M relevantly know his victim? If so, relevant the way in which he knew him/her?
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Balin » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:13 pm

To be sure: can we assume Catholic Church? I had a Protestant church in mind, but it would probably work with Catholic as well
Relevant a part of the church? DOYD of "part" E.g. plates? Yes (but not for collecting an offering) Altar? Organs? Bells? Rosary relevant? No to rest

Are flours relevant? No Anonymous = he did not want his name to appear somewhere relevantly? This He send an anonymous letter? No, but OTRT! Did he pull a curtain? Change the microphone's tone? Change the order of speakers? Talk to the priest? No to these Did M relevantly speak/talk with someone (with God?)? Not speak or talk, No Pray? Yope Fake to pray No (e.g. he was communicating with someone but masked the whole scene as a prayer)? No Is Bible relevant? No Is the would be murderer the only one that would have wanted to stay anonymous? Assume Yes

Did Dexter have clues leading him to the church? No If so, were such clues related to M? To M's will to stay anonymous?

Was M involved in the church as a faithful? Yes, but not just as a member Or maybe related to it because he did restoration works/something else related to the church? No A painter? No (e.g. she depicted a murder scene without signing his paint, which he usually did) No Did M relevantly know his victim? Yes If so, relevant the way in which he knew him/her? No
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Earnest » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:23 am

Was it a written prayer? If so are the words of the prayer relevant? Should M name appear in a list of names? Where Dexter supposed the name to appear? Inside the church? Did Dexter have something else belonging to the would be criminal? Something else written by the would be criminal? Are previous threaten to the victim relevant? Did M send something to the victim? To the church? Something that was supposed to be signed? Something over which his name was supposed to be put? A document? Something related to the church?

Did Dexter deduce from the fact that M was waiting for someone/something to happen/doing something relevant that he was the only one aware of the something send to the victim (and hence had criminal intents)?

Did his name appear somewhere else relevantly? Was he known to authorities? Was his first/given name relevant? Did other names appear? Names of people in the church? If his name did not appear somewhere relevantly, did he voluntarily omit to write it? Or this indicated that he was not in a relevant place (to put his name)? Or maybe he wrote down a fake name? The name of someone else (e.g. the victim)? A number (e.g. 666)? A symbol (a cross?)? Others?

Plate to receive holy communion relevant? Maybe he wanted to poison it?
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Balin » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:40 pm

Was it a written prayer? Yesish If so are the words of the prayer relevant? Yes Should M name appear in a list of names? No Where Dexter supposed the name to appear? Inside the church? Did Dexter have something else belonging to the would be criminal? No Something else written by the would be criminal? No Are previous threaten to the victim relevant? No Did M send something to the victim? To the church? Something that was supposed to be signed? Something over which his name was supposed to be put? A document? Something related to the church? He didn't send anything

Did Dexter deduce from the fact that M was waiting for someone/something to happen/doing something relevant that he was the only one aware of the something send to the victim (and hence had criminal intents)? No

Did his name appear somewhere else relevantly? No Was he known to authorities? Assume No Was his first/given name relevant? No Did other names appear? No Names of people in the church? If his name did not appear somewhere relevantly, did he voluntarily omit to write it? Yes Or this indicated that he was not in a relevant place (to put his name)? No Or maybe he wrote down a fake name? The name of someone else (e.g. the victim)? A number (e.g. 666)? A symbol (a cross?)? Others? No to these

Plate to receive holy communion relevant? Maybe he wanted to poison it? No, but that's a brilliant guess.
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby gregoryuconn » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:20 am

So Miguel is not just a member in the church but.... Is he the priest/minister/reverend? Lay leader? Orange player? Deacon? Choir boy? Office staff? Board member?
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Earnest » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:43 am

Ok I must admit that for a moment I thought simply about the detective entering the church early while an early prayer was told. The prayer spoke about a biblical episode of an assassination prevented by Jesus/God and in this sense he discovered the would-be criminal. May I ask you, to be sure, if it is nothing like that and the would be criminal would have committed the crime in the present (or at least the near future)?

Technology/Internet relevant? Was M eventually arrested? Was the prayer written on walls? On the floor? On a piece of paper? On a book? Just known by M? Just told by M? Invented by M? To be told bending on the knees? A blessing? Would his name have appeared handwritten? Written on a laptop? Did he delete his name? Was the prayer commonly recited in the church? Was it an early morning prayer? Are the words of the prayer in latin? In english? Spanish? Archangel Michael relevant? Was the prayer meant to be recited/repeated by observants? Is it a prayer to God? To Jesus? To the Virgin Maria? Is it a gospel chorus prayer? Is it a new prayer that Miguel wrote down? Is Miguel a friar/monk/church ministry? Would his name have appeared: in the middle of the prayer? At the end? Would his name be repeated laud by someone? If so would someone have recognized the name?

Would someone have noticed that M's name had been omitted during the service? Are offerings relevant? Church side services? After service activities? Did the name's omission mean something relevant? E.g. that he was on a rush? That he did not know that his name should be put in that prayer (revealing that he did not know the prayer) or maybe it was a way not to be caught by police after the murder? A scapegoat? Did M told before/after other prayers not omitting his name? Did he omit also also other parts of the prayer? Just his name? Is "mea culpa" relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Balin » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:25 pm

So Miguel is not just a member in the church but.... Is he the priest/minister/reverend? Lay leader? Orange player? Deacon? This Choir boy? Office staff? Board member?

Ok I must admit that for a moment I thought simply about the detective entering the church early while an early prayer was told. The prayer spoke about a biblical episode of an assassination prevented by Jesus/God and in this sense he discovered the would-be criminal. May I ask you, to be sure, if it is nothing like that and the would be criminal would have committed the crime in the present (or at least the near future)? It is nothing like that, and the crime would be committed in the near future (within a couple days at the latest)

Technology/Internet relevant? No Was M eventually arrested? Yes Was the prayer written on walls? On the floor? On a piece of paper? This On a book? Just known by M? Just told by M? Invented by M? To be told bending on the knees? A blessing? Would his name have appeared handwritten? It would have expected to be handwritten Written on a laptop? But computer writing is VERY relevant! Did he delete his name? No Was the prayer commonly recited in the church? Was it an early morning prayer? No to both Are the words of the prayer in latin? In english? Spanish? Archangel Michael relevant? Was the prayer meant to be recited/repeated by observants? No to these Is it a prayer to God? Yes To Jesus? Yes To the Virgin Maria? No Is it a gospel chorus prayer? No Is it a new prayer that Miguel wrote down? Yes Is Miguel a friar/monk/church ministry? See above Would his name have appeared: in the middle of the prayer? At the end? Before or after Would his name be repeated laud by someone? No If so would someone have recognized the name? The name is not the important thing that would have been recognized

Would someone have noticed that M's name had been omitted during the service? No Are offerings relevant? Church side services? After service activities? No Did the name's omission mean something relevant? Not so much the name's omission, but... E.g. that he was on a rush? That he did not know that his name should be put in that prayer (revealing that he did not know the prayer) or maybe it was a way not to be caught by police after the murder? Yes, in that he did not want to be identified as having written what he weote A scapegoat? Did M told before/after other prayers not omitting his name? Irrel Did he omit also also other parts of the prayer? No Just his name? Yes Is "mea culpa" relevant? No
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Earnest » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:22 am

Does the prayer denounce his intentions to kill? (e.g. "Lord forgive me for what I am going to do...") Booklets relevant?
Is something like blank spaces relevant? (e.g. 6 blank spaces corresponding to the name "Miguel")
Ok his name was avoided but maybe the words "The Deacon" were written there? Was there something else that made it evident that the prayer had been written by Miguel? E.g. the Laptop in which the prayer was written was Miguel's one? Fingerprints on the PC?

Computer writing very relevant --> let's start from bases: did Miguel (or someone else) write the prayer on Computer? If so, did he relevantly print it? Was the prayer meant to be handwritten? Was it common to write prayers on Computer? Is computer writing relevant because the prayer was written on PC? Something else was written on PC? The prayer should have been written on a PC? The prayer should have been send to someone relevantly? Did Dexter have access to the laptop? If so because it was early in the morning? Did Dexter see M printing/writing the prayer? Maybe D heard the noise of the keys when Miguel was writing (it was early in the morning, nobody was in the church and the key sound echoed)? Capital letters relevant? Style font?


WAG --> Maybe M wrote down the prayer in Spanish and since it had been written with a PC app, it had been automatically translated in English. The automatic translation was due to the fact that Miguel did not sign up to the app with his name (here his intention to stay anonymous) so that the app gave for granted that he was English speaker hence automatically forming a translated version of what he wrote.
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning

Postby Balin » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:29 pm

Computer writing very relevant --> let's start from bases: did Miguel (or someone else) write the prayer on Computer? Yes, Miguel If so, did he relevantly print it? Yes Was the prayer meant to be handwritten? Yes, and I can call this one done!

****SPOILER****

During the service, the priest asked the congregation to write down prayers and pass them to the deacons collecting the offering. Miguel, one of the deacons, wrote a prayer asking forgiveness, as he was planning to kill his wife. So as not to be recognized by his handwriting, Miguel wrote and printed his prayer the night before, then passed it up with all the rest of the congregation's prayers.

After the service, the priest spotted Miguel's prayer of confession and called Dexter forward. Dexter realized that only someone who knew the priest was going to ask for prayers would have been able to print a prayer in advance, and the only ones who had been told were the deacons.

Nicely solved!
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Re: [Balin] Early Sunday morning (*CONFESSED*)

Postby Earnest » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:38 am

Nicely stated! Great one!
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